Expert: Joe McSorley - 10/4/2010

Question
QUESTION: Do you know of any method of meditation that can help purify the mind from defiled thoughts and desires?

ANSWER: Hello Choo,
  I think most forms of meditation would claim to help purify the mind.  From the Zen standpoint the mind itself is the problem so purifying it does not solve the problem.  The mind itself must be dissolved for true awakening to occur.  In the Zen story of Hui-neng and Shen Hsui, Shen claims that we must cleanse the mirror diligently and keep it pure but Hui-neng said originally no mirror and thus no place for defilement.  This is the heart of Zen, smash the mirror that becomes defiled.
  Take care,
         Joe

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: If originally there is no mirror, then should killers continue to kill, rapists continue to rape, robbers continue to rob, etc, since originally there is no self that is killing, raping, and robbing, and no self being killed, raped, and robbed? If really there originally is no mirror, then who's Hui-neng that did the blabbering?

Answer
Hello Choo,
   I can understand your frustration and anger in trying to understand this.  I had similar reaction to this too when I studied it.  Originally there is no self means that, originally.  The self that arises is troubled and does those horrible crimes you mention, it does not excuse them. The person that commits them is greatly troubled and suffering because they do not know their true nature.  Allowing them to continue on their path of pain does nothing to help them or their victims. Originally the person was a baby that was pure and free of the troubled mind, originally it had no conflict or mental suffering.  Where is there rape and murder in nature?  You need the broken mind to go against nature and be out of nature.  The years of conditioning and abuse form the warped mind of the criminal, the thought process is warped and broken. It is the only way it knows how to think; it is the karma of its upbringing.  “Polishing” it to keep it clean does not resolve the problem.  Someone who is driven to sex does not overcome it by not thinking of it; all you are doing is hiding it. This is why the Catholic priests are in such trouble today.  All the praying and penance does not change the mind.  Originally they were not evil or criminals, originally they were free of these ideas, unbroken from nature.  As the mind arose the individual arose and with it all the problems with its conditioning.  If someone can see through some of this then perhaps they can actually transform their mind but the mind itself is the source of the problem.  Originally all nature is pure, neither good nor bad, and not separated.  What Hui-neng was trying to communicate was that we should strive to awaken this state before the dualistic mind arose and that state is here and now.  
  If who you are is merely the body consciousness then the suffering is inescapable.  The question is, who is the self that identifies the body as self?  In nature killing is not a personal thing, it is nature killing nature and being born in nature, the sheep is not good and the wolf bad, it is the process of nature.  Nature isn’t living as opposed to dying, it is simultaneously living and dying.  That we are not born into a war zone where we are forced to kill to survive is a blessing.  We can stand aside from others and judge them harshly because we do not bear their burden, however, if places were switched what does that make us?  Originally we are all of the same source and now the myriad expression of things is created by the mind.  The God that creates the murderer is as guilty as the murderer.
   I understand that this philosophy does not resonate with everyone.  Perhaps my blathering strikes no chord in you and I understand that fully.  Whatever path fulfills you is the one you should follow.  Clearly you think deeply about these things.  I hope a resolution comes to you.
  Take care,
         Joe