Expert: Joe McSorley - 2/29/2004

Question
Hi Mr. McSorley,

Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions for me. First, I think I'd just like to get a bit of background information. Are you Taoist or a Buddhist? If so, did you choose to be or were you raised that way? If it was by choice, then what made you choose Taoism or Buddhism?

Here are a few things that I'm curious about ... it would be great if you could answer from the perspective of both Taoism and Zen Buddhism.

1. Does a gender role or gender stereotype exist in either philosophy? Does sexism exist? Is there anything in either philosophy/religion that either men or women are not allowed to do or "forced" to do?

2. How does each philosophy approach death? Does an afterlife exist? If so, what is it, how is it determined, etc (I suppose I'm asking for a few details about it)?

3. How does each philosophy approach the idea of war? Is it wrong? Is it okay in certain situations? Is "killing in war" different than "murdering"? Should either of these be punished? If so, how? How would each philosophy feel about the current situation that the United States has with Iraq? How would each philosophy feel about the situation within the country(ies) in which they are rooted?

If you could answer these questions for me, I would really appreciate it. Thank you so much for your time. I hope you have a great day.

~Imagine~Peace~
Suzanne

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Followup To
Question -
Hi Mr. McSorley,

My name is Suzanne Rizzo. I'm doing an activity right now for a class I'm taking (Eastern and Western Thought). The activity includes interviewing an expert, and you seem to be quite the expert! I was wondering if you would have the time within the next few days for answer several questions for me for this class? Thank you.

~Imagine~Peace~
Suzanne
Answer -
Hi,
  Yes, how did you want to send them, through AE or some other means?  Let me know.
         Joe

Answer
Hi Suzanne,
  Here's my answers with your questions:

Are you Taoist or a Buddhist? If so, did you choose to be or were you raised that way? If it was by choice, then what made you choose Taoism or Buddhism?

I don't consider myself either. Do be either one is to have a concept of what one is other than something else which is inconsistent with Zen. I am just someone who was looking to get a better view of reality beyond the confines of normal human consciousness.

Here are a few things that I'm curious about ... it would be great if you could answer from the perspective of both Taoism and Zen Buddhism.

1. Does a gender role or gender stereotype exist in either philosophy? Does sexism exist? Is there anything in either philosophy/religion that either men or women are not allowed to do or "forced" to do?
No, not in the philosophies but people are people and will do what they want and use the philosophy to verify their opinion.  There is no dogma or creed in either system and both ask that the individual do what they can to overcome their ignorance to see reality as it is and not as a product of the human mind.




2. How does each philosophy approach death? Does an afterlife exist? If so, what is it, how is it determined, etc (I suppose I'm asking for a few details about it)?

Death and life are both sides of the same coin and can't be separated.  It is a cycle where one becomes the other, like the yin-yang symbol.  We only judge what life and death is by looking from the outside but our view is skewed.  There is not the idea of a separate afterlife, heaven or hell.  We rise and fall from the universe.


3. How does each philosophy approach the idea of war? Is it wrong? Is it okay in certain situations? Is "killing in war" different than "murdering"? Should either of these be punished? If so, how? How would each philosophy feel about the current situation that the United States has with Iraq? How would each philosophy feel about the situation within the country(ies) in which they are rooted?

Again, there is no dogma or creed here.  If one is supposed to be harmonious with nature or one with the universe then you can assume that war is wrong and an aberration of reality. However, if you are attacked and don't fight back isn't that just as violent towards those you would protect than as to not fight at all?  It's all perspective.  It's like saying it's wrong to steal but suppose you are stealing medicine to save lives then what?  There is not this black and white view of things that you have in the West.  

Here's a quick rundown of the two systems:  
 In one sense Buddhism and Taoism are completely separate and arose independently of each other in India and China, respectively.  Though they are historically and culturally different they both come to the same point at their depth.  In the truest sense of the word neither of these are religions, they are an attempt to answer existentially fundamental questions about the human condition.  There is no god, dogma, creed or faith to any of these philosophies.  Buddhism is call the religion of self-awakening, meaning that in is incumbent upon the individual to come to their own awakening through their own efforts.  There is no savior or god to help one here.  
 There are many sects of Buddhism that vary greatly from one another.  Many of the more popular sects are more like what we think of as religion.  They worship the historical Buddha as godlike and pray to him for help but this is not at all what the historical Buddha taught.  Zen and Mahayana do not do this at all and some argue that Zen is the closest to the original teachings.   There are many very structure schools of Buddhism but it is really the individual's effort and not the ritual or chanting that brings one to awakening.
   At their core Zen and Taoism could be said to be identical but in their practice are vastly different.  Lao Tzu envisioned his writings to guide the rulers to become ‘emperor sages' that they would rule in harmony with nature and man.  Chuang Tzu is much deeper than Lao and in his writings tries to explain the relativity of things, man in particular, and the interpenetration of things.  There are no real formal schools of Taoism and it's articulations today go from to harmonious to bizarre.  There is a thread that some Taoists follow to be ‘all natural' and anything synthetic or man made is wrong.  Some of these folks feel that passing gas, belching and all other ‘natural' forms of being human should never be controlled but expressed fully.  It's an odd interpretation to me.  One teacher actually said to me “We Taoists piss in the yard”.   The problem with the anti-societal thinking is that society is natural.  Insects, elephants, wolves and chimps have social structures and behavior they adhere to so it is consistent with nature for man to do the same.  Taoism, as taught today, is also caught up in magic and alchemy.  There are little of the real teachings of either Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu in it.  It is very difficult to ‘follow' Taoism for this reason.
  In Buddhism the object is to ‘see things as they are' and to overcome the dualistic distinctions of the mind.  The idea of the interpenetrations of all things, sunyatta and prajnaparamita are all consistent with the interpenetration and the yin-yang of Taoism if understood in its deepest sense.  When it is only understood in a relative sense you will have problems.  So this self discovery or better said, self obliteration/reconstruction works perfectly in Buddhism with Taoism when viewed by Chuang Tzu's “heaven, self and I arise simultaneously”.  If you were to come to a true and thorough going realization of reality outside the norms of your society and history you would have to create a language that describes what you have realized.  In the case of Chuang Tzu he did so and it clearly describes the proclamations of many of the Zen masters over the century.  So from this standpoint I say that they are ultimately speaking of the same things though every day practice may be the farthest thing from this.
    Again, in Taoism, the object is to overcome the self and become harmonious with Nature.  This overcoming of the ego could be said to be the same as overcoming the self in Buddhism and ‘seeing things as they are'.  


And now one last word from the Zen perspective on your sign off; to ‘imagine peace' is like imaging a meal when you are starving.  In Buddhism the thought is the illusion so you must self actualize peace and not imagine it.

 I hope this helps you. Take care,
   Joe
Actualize Peace
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