Expert: Joe McSorley - 12/5/2005

Question
Hi. Thanks for answer. I decided to ask you this question cause a few days ago i was reading some thoughts of Morihei Ueshiba and i also read his life story and it seemed to me that martial art training helped him in achieving his aim, his spiritual aim, because he always looked for something deeper. That's why he died as a poor man because  he devoted everything he had to training  and gaining knowledge. He said: "To know yourself is to know the universe" and i think that the training in martial arts made this task easier for him. Do you have any thoughts on this. Would you agree with me?
Thanks!
Followup To
Question -
Hello
I know that you are not dealing with martial arts on this forum but maybe you could give me an answer.
Do you think that doing martial arts is a good spiritual training? If so, why do you think so?
Personally i think it's a good way of training your spirit, it requires self discipline and in the same way trains your mind so it must be beneficial for your spirit, i guess.
thanks!
Answer -
Hi Luke,
 First of all what is it we are talking about when we say spirit?  Terms like this are constantly tossed about like they have a common meaning, especially East to West, but they don't.  There is a shrine for the kung fu system I am in and it talks about developing ‘shin' which is mostly translated as spirit.  To a Christian in my class it meant soul and he was talking about developing this.  I turned to a native born Chinaman in the class and asked him if it meant soul, he replied, “what is soul”?  I said, “What is spirit in Chinese, ghost?”  He said, “No, no, not at all”.  So I said what is this ‘shin' here and replied, “ Transparent”.  If you asked any Westerner to define or describe spirit or soul I don't think any would respond ‘transparent'.  By the way, he did not mean invisible by this.  It means that your ego does not get in the way of what you see, you are ego less or transparent.  I won't belabor this point anymore.  Assuming there is some spiritual aspect of humans let's talk about it in relationship to martial arts and discipline.
  There is a huge thread of thought tying discipline in with spirituality in the West but I think it is very incongruent.  I spent yesterday doing a show for the army navy game with the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the US military.  Along with them I was with Navy seals and army Rangers.  These are arguably the most disciplined men in the world.  They also are very well schooled academically and in all forms of mental discipline.  Would you call them the most spiritual as well and if not, then what is the relationship between discipline and spirituality?  Martial arts school taut these relationships but I rarely see it at all.  The biggest egos I see are at these schools and the tournaments are dripping with ego and testosterone.  If discipline brings awakening then Arnold Schwarzennegar should be up there with the Dali Lama but I don't think most people confuse the two.  Discipline without clear, explicit spiritual/philosophical training and self-inquiry is just discipline.  I have been to many martial arts schools over the years and heard many masters lecture but I have seen very few who had any understanding at all of the root of Zen or Taoist teaching.  This idea of the kung fu master being like David Caradines' character from the show is really just a myth for the most part and you don't find many Chinese or Japanese who think this way about the masters over there.
  In China and Japan there are martial arts kwoons or dojos and separate temples for Buddhism and Taoism.  There are some that have a combination but they are rare.  The original Shaolin monastery was a Chan Buddhist monastery that supposedly added martial arts later.  There is a lot of controversy over the ties between the two and I won't argue it either way here.  The main point here is that discipline is just discipline without the direct guided teachings of a spiritual system.  I once was with a Zen monk and asked him if he had any training in fighting and he replied, “ I am a Buddhist monk, what need do I have for fighting”?
 So martial arts can be good for you inner self only if taught with that explicitly in mind and as a large part of the curriculum.
I hope this helped you,
     Take care,
         Joe


Answer
Hi Luke,
 Ueshiba was an exception to most martial artists.  It's what he brought to the art and not how the art changed him.  He was on an inner quest and combined that with his training and it worked for him.  It may not work for others as well.  You can bring this insight to any physical discipline.  The more you attempt to master something, be it a musical instrument or martial arts, the more you learn about yourself and your limitations.  If you come to the art with this deep spiritual inquiry then it may well assist you in your goal.
 Take care,
         Joe