Expert: Joe McSorley - 3/7/2007

Question
"it could be said that mind is awareness and yet not awareness".
The part of Mind that IS aware is still subject to dichotomy.  It is an empty attribute and therefore is not in conformity with the emptiness of Mind.  
The Buddha spoke of what is, and seldom relied on mysteries to explain the nature of nirvanna.  It's intellectually dishonest to partially explain Zen with analog reasoning, and to cope with obvious contradictions with mysterious and illogical statements like "it's hard to talk about".  It may be that Zen has not suffieiently evolved to a point where it can communicate the nature of moksha to those like myslef who accept their world-view, but do not possess a "catechism" to follow along.
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The text above is a follow-up to ...

-----Question-----
joe,
By "Mind" I refer to Ocean (as in Suzuki's Ocean/Wave analogy).  Please explain how it is possible to avoid a dichotomy if, indeed, Mind possessed awareness.
George
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The text above is a follow-up to ...

-----Question-----
Does Mind possess the quality of awareness?
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This question can get sticky with semantics because it is what you mean by mind.  Mind does not mean the thinking cognitive self in Buddhism.  There is a Buddhist saying , �nothing exists outside of mind� and another �all things are mind�, this does not mean all things are contained in thought.  Mind here would mean sunyata or the unborn or the interpenetration of all things. To say the mind possesses something creates a dichotomy between mind and that awareness.  It could be said that mind is awareness and yet is not awareness.
  I hope this helped you.  Take care,
        joe

-----Answer-----
Hi George,
 It comes down to the dichotomy/non-dichotomy of wave is wave, is not wave is ocean is not ocean, etc.  It comes down to what sounds like double talk, aware yet not aware simultaneously.  It is something that our everyday minds want to grasp but the everyday mind is what keeps us from grasping it.  
  Sorry to sound so confusing.  I just saw a video of a lecture with Dr DeMartino and Sasaki Roshi and he said,"Zen is easy but difficult to talk about".
         Joe

Answer
  I realize that I am not the most intelligent or articulate person when it comes to trying to explain these things.  Teachers such as Masao Abe, Richard De Martino and Shin Ichi Hisamatsu are far better at these things than I.  I hope that I have never referred to things as a mystery or cloaked them in any such way, and if I have, I apologize for that lapse.  I reject the idea of hidden mysteries outright so it troubles me if I somehow expressed that.  I still say, at least for me anyway, that this is difficult to explain.  The Tao Te Ching begins with “ the Way that can be named is not the eternal Way” and Zen is often described as that which is ‘not relying on words or letters’, or that which cannot be contained in words or letters. The historical Buddha holding up a flower jumps outside of analog reasoning yet it is an attempt to convey something beyond what thought can realize. When asked what happens after death the historical Buddha remained silent.  This could be taken as avoiding the question, being stumped or perhaps, expressing a mystery, though most likely, none of these things.  One teacher once exclaimed to a student, “ You are trying to understand with the mind that which the mind cannot understand”. Many Zen masters in history have been severely criticized by other masters for even attempting to speak about these things, saying they are pandering to the students.  I am by no means in their company but I do try to pass on what was taught to me, however inadequately that might be.
 I see these things as an articulation of the difficulty in trying to convey these matters in words.  It is hard to convey the beauty of a sunset in words yet we try. A great criticism of Zen has been that it does not try to explain these things and does illogical stunts that have no meaning to the initiated.  Many teachers historically have retreated from society because of the difficulty in trying to relate these things in an easily accessible or truly meaningful manner.
If this is seen as intellectually dishonest it is an unintentional act on my part and just the weakness of my ability to do any better.  I am always open to criticism and try to improve my ability to express these things so I thank you for bringing them to my intention.  The older I get the more I am aware of the shortcomings in my ability to explain this topic well.
  Sincerely,
         Joe