Expert: Joe McSorley - 8/23/2004

Question
In your answer to Lianne, you seem to paint a very black and white picture: combine Buddhism with Wicca and it's no longer Buddhism.  I do agree that there are stark differences between Buddhism and Wicca, but there are also striking similarities, such as The Wheel of the Year (the cycle of seasons, like the wheel of samsara, the life cycle from Maiden to Mother to Crone) and something that approaches the Bodhisattva ideal (a willingness to return again and again to this life as a compassionate being for the sake of others.  For this reason, many Wiccans love Kwan Yin).  The interaction of God (form) and Goddess (luminous emptiness) reflect the dance of wave and ocean, the metaphor so common to Buddhism.  There are many entry ways from Buddhism into Wicca and vice versa.  So my question is this: How best might one integrate Buddhist meditation practice into Wiccan ritual?  Or do you really view them as hopelessly opposed?  My own Lama of the Tibetan Kagyu lineage has told me repeatedly that the greatest sign of spiritual progress is compassion and not necessarily the kind of meditation one practices.  If being fully Buddhist is being fully compassionate and if this can be born in Wicca as well, albeit, perhaps, on a higher tier than many practice, then Wicca and Buddhism seem to have much to say to one another.  Any thoughts?  

Answer
Hi,
    If I was a smarter man I might be able to answer this more concisely but I am not so please bear with me and this long letter.
  I fully understand what you are saying here and I think the difference is what you and I see as Buddhism.  Zen does not use the rituals and forms of Tibetan or practices from other forms of Buddhism nor is its meditation the same.  You can easily compare the two paths but it's at their core where they are different.  The idea of the Samsaric Wheel and the rise and fall of nature is from the side of dualism in Wicca and many forms of Buddhism.  Though compassion may be the goal of Tibetan Buddhism the ending of the dualistic mind is the goal of Zen. To remain in the birth/death cycle is the ultimate problem of Buddhism and it is what is most clearly addressed by the historical Buddha himself.  The first Noble Truth is that life is dukkha and the fourth is to overcome ignorance.  True compassion arises after awakening from ignorance. Full compassion can only be expressed by a full self; other than that it is a practice and not a pure reality. So no matter how similar the systems may appear on the surface is it the core of Wicca to annihilate the dualism of self and other? I don't know and I don't know if all Wiccans would agree on this topic.  We may use similar words but are we truly expressing the same thing?  Even the idea of harmony does not address this.  When one tries to overcome dualism from the side of dualism they are lost so it is the goal in Zen to be ‘unborn/undying' and not just harmonious within the wheel of causation.
  All of that having been said you question is about the meditation and I'll address that now.  Meditation itself is very difficult to talk about because I think that most people are not critical in their assessment of what they are doing.  For meditation to be truly fruitful it must be done with ‘right understanding' (Eightfold Path) and not just some ritualized practice.  Zen people talk about ego consciousness and overcoming it through meditation.  The problem of ‘ego consciousness' is something else that is greatly misunderstood.  Zen people talk about ‘emptying ourselves' to be or to create ‘no-self' but how can one empty their self?  The very act of doing so creates the self that is doing the emptying; it is a self-negating process.  In the Zen understanding of the human condition man only knows things by contradistinction, by dividing one from the other.  We know good because it is not bad and bad because it is not good.  We know light apart from darkness and vice versa.  This is called differentiated thinking. We know that we are a subject but only know ourselves as an object.  We know that we are but not who we are. The act of separating to know things is called ‘dualistic discrimination' and the human consciousness has to do this to be able to ‘know' something.  It is this act of separation of self from other that creates the ‘I'.  I am I because I am not you or not other things.  This is the ego, the act of separating to be a self apart from and alienated from the rest of the world.  We do not see things as they are but as they are differentiated from us.  In reality this separation of self from other does not really exist.  It is the ignorant functioning of our minds in attempt to know something.   We as egos cannot live in the present, our minds flit between past and future but in the present we have no relativity so we cannot exist.  So our minds dance like drunken monkeys never settling or at rest.  We try to have a quiet or still mind but this is still a mind that is the product of dualistic discrimination.  It is still the illusion of self so no matter how quiet we get it or how open we get it, it is still inside causation.  Ultimately self is other, other is self and we are mutually creating, mutually defining.  Without self there is no other, without other there is no self, therefore I am everything and everything is me. This is called the interpenetration of things or interdependent co-origination, non-duality or rightly: non-dual duality.  Since self is not just self but relative to other there is no one to be saved, no self, other, God, Buddha; these are all creations of the differentiated self but not of the True self.   In essence there is no one to become awakened for that self was an illusion.   The saying “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!' is an articulation of this meaning.  If you meet the Buddha, then he is outside of you, apart from you, thus not you; so then he is not the Buddha but your minds creation of the Buddha.    Nothing apart from self, self apart from Nothing
 So meditation as something that you do, actually separates you from your goal.  That is why mediation must be overcome.  It must be ‘mind and body fallen off' as Hisamatsu put it.  There are no levels of meditation here or different depths of understanding, there is just the attempt to become awakened at each and every moment of life, here, now, always and not just those moments when you are actually sitting.   The true practice of Zen meditation is sitting, standing, eating, drinking and sleeping or it is useless.
    To become awakened is to be come liberated from dualism is to be liberated from all anxiety, from birth and death.  To be unfettered by birth or death is to have no self- doubt.  You are free to be completely yourself, alive, vital and all encompassing.  
   Now does Wicca embrace the above ideas?  Is there ultimately no self in Wicca?  I can't answer this because I don't know.  I would say that if anyone from any religious practice were to meditate with the goal of breaking down the process of reflective consciousness, regardless of belief, then they could help create the opportunity to true awakening.   If you can apply this to your practice then there is no problem. To use the wave metaphor, the wave seeking the ocean or stillness is still the wave seeking.  The wave not seeking does nothing to help the situation.  The ocean was always the wave but the wave, through its ignorance, creates its own separation; it is, in fact, the act of separating and never really existed apart from the ocean.  Ultimately its birth and death are illusion.  When it finally breaks down the act of separated it is liberated from dualism, birth/death and the cycle.  Anyone from any background can work towards this if you have the correct understanding.
  I hope this has helped you. Take care,
          Joe