Expert: Joe McSorley - 10/14/2007

Question
Hello again Mr Joe!
Last time I asked you about enlightenment and how to know that you or someone else is enlightened.
You wrote among others that: True awakening does not fade away and cannot fade away.

How about this quote: "Enlightenment or delusion? Who is to say which person has which. Like the evening moon they appear and fade. Not one knows exactly when."

Would you agree with that? It says that you're never sure about your enlightenment or awakening. And even when it happens that you experience such an awakening state it may "appear and fade like the evening moon."

Have a nice day! Luke

Answer
Hi Luke,
 Here’s your line:
“ How about this quote: "Enlightenment or delusion? Who is to say which person has which. Like the evening moon they appear and fade. Not one knows exactly when."
Would you agree with that? It says that you're never sure about your enlightenment or awakening.”
 No, it does not say that, it is one person talking about another and not talking about themselves.  It does not say “ I don’t know exactly when” but is a judgment from the outside of another, “ who is to say which person”.  Do you know when you are hungry or full?  Can someone observing you make that judgment?  They can say “Luke’s hunger comes and goes like the moon but no one knows exactly when”.  But that too is wrong, it should say , “only Luke knows exactly when”.  If you are not sure about your own hunger or awakening why bother to awaken?
          Joe