Expert: Chrys Meatyard - 3/14/2007

Question
Chrys, how are u? Yes, i knew they have to bob like that to eat and the smaller one will do that when its eating but the older one refuses.

I tried once again a little while a go to feed the older one and tried to just use my fingers on the head, like u said and I have seen pictures of but it just wont let me. And now that it has learned how to fly, thanks to mom and dad, it is even harder. I tried numerous times with the temp just right and it wont let me, I had to re-warm several times. Once it was back ny itself it would taste and swallow the formula in its mouth.

I watched this older one (sammy) in the cage and saw that it is following mom around begging for food and mom wont feed. But dad has tried a couple times to feed Sammy and as far as Ive seen, he's had no luck either. I have felt Sammy's crop and cant feel much, this may be a silly Q but will their crop feel the same as the babies or does it change  as they get older, how can I tell if the older one is full? I cant see the crop because all the feathers are all grown in.

The baby on the other hand is doing quite well, the fullest crop Ive seen on that one in a long while. I personally saw dad feed this one a couple of times today.

I also put a tiny saucer of steamed shredded veggies on the floor for the babies and someone has gotten into it a little bit (Im assuming the younger one)

How can the older one be following mom around begging for food but wont take it from me OR dad? Does this mean that it will eventually eat from its dad or I once it gets hungry enough? I thought that it was a positive sign when it was begging mom for food (meaning that it is not sick or dying)  Thanks once again, and much appreciation for all the knowledge you have, obviously you have raised many babie birdies and I am forever grateful.


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Oh Yeah one more thing Chrys:

I have been holding them down to eat because I cant get them to stay still but today I am going to try and only hold their head (even though I tried this before and it didnt work) but after what you said, I will try harder. Thanks again

krystal
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Thank you so much for your timely response, I have been worried sick

The older baby is 4.5 weeks old and the younger one is almost 4 weeks old. The younger one will end up drinking the formula, but I have to force it. But the older one just wont. The only formula its been getting is when I ease up and theres some in its mouth and it eats that.

Last night, I didnt know what to do, so I decided to put them back into the cage with the mom and dad (in the nesting box) and see what happens. This morning I saw that noth the babies are out of the box on the floor of the cage, looking ok. I tried to put some millet on the ground for them, but again only the baby is partaking

The vet was supposedly certified, he did say that he could take a culture of the crop to see if there was infection or he said they can just put them on antibiotics to make sure. So I didnt think they needed the culture at their young age, but was I wrong to pass that up. I took the antibiotics but wasnt able to give them to them yet. Im going to try again today.

Right now I just went and looked what was going on in the cage and the older one definately wants to eat from the parents because it is following them around bobbing its neck. The dad looked liked it is going to feed, theres a lot of commotion in there right now.

Oh yeah, I have absolutely made sure the temp of the formula is 102-105 at the time of feeding. It takes a while to make them eat, so I have to reheat it mid-feeding. I am feeding them from their left side and doing everything the research says (holding him down, Ive bought 5 different syringes) I also thought maybe the older one needs to be weaned so I bought "weaning food" smooshed it up and offered but as far as Ive seen no response from that. I also tried to put formula on my finger to see if the older one would take it like that but no, only the baby will.

Im thinking maybe the older one will be ok because seeing it with the parents, it wants food. Any more advice? Thanks once again, you are the BEST! I have been up for days and crying because I have done so much research and stayed home all day and tried and tried to feed this baby. I was going to try again in a bit. Thanks again

Krystal
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Hi Chrys:
I have written to you a couple of different times regarding my baby parakeets. I ended up with 3 feathered babies. On friday though 1 died. I had noticed that the mom was out of the cage a lot, so I thought maybe she had quit feeding. It was too hard for me to check the bigger ones  crop because this one already had real feathers. I pulled them out though and put them into a brooder and have tried to handfeed but with little luck. The older one just refuses the food. Its getting to the point where she will starve to death if I dont do something.
So Today I took the remaining 2 babies to the vet. He said that they look physically ok but have very little food in their crops.

I have been able to force the younger one to eat but the older one will not eat. I have no choice but to put one or both back into the cage with mom and dad or keep trying and hope they dont starve. Which choice do you think is better? The vet today was too busy and rushed me out...and made me feel even worse...like most vets...please, please help and thank you once again for all your time and help.

krystal
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Hi, Krystal.

If the handfeeding formula isn't 102-104 degrees F when FED TO THEM, the babies will not want to eat the food.  It takes a couple of times of trying to handfeed for them to get the hang of it.  Also, if you aren't feeding correctly, they may not take to the handfeeding.  Do you feel any hardness in the crop (has the crop stopped working)?  

Was this a certified avian veterinarian you took them to?  I ask because my bird vet would have done crop and cloaca swaps and tested them to see what was up.  The birds might look fine physically, but not be fine internally.  

How old are these babies?  Sometimes when keets refuse handfeedings, they are ready to be weaned.

Get back to me with answers to my questions so I can try to see what's going on.

Thanks.

Chrys
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Hi again, Krystal.

I know how you feel, Krystal.  I've had many sleepless days and nights in my many years of raising baby parrots!

At 4 and 4.5 weeks of age, these babies are likely ready/more than ready to start weaning.  99% of the keets I've raised start weaning at 3 weeks, most completely weaned by 5-6 weeks.  This is likely why they are refusing food.  The parents may not feed them because of this fact.  Therefore, I'd take them away from the parents again because if the babies have been away from them for days, they may not even recognize them as their own babies.  

Some baby keets go from 4 handfeedings a day down to 0 handfeedings a day and go straight to being weaned.  The thing you need to do here is find some type of food they will eat.  At this point, give them anything you can find that they will eat...seed, spray millet, corn bread, dry/sugarless cereals, cooked brown rice is good (add some shredded veggies like carrots), etc.  Usually, baby birds need warm, soft foods to start out with because they are used to warm, soft foods, but each bird is different.  They may not try some of these foods because they don't recognize the foods as something to eat, but just keep trying.  Put as much variety in with them as possible until they find something they will nibble on.  You may have to try handfeeding a couple of times per day just to ensure they get something in their tummies.  You may have to place some of the food into their mouths so they can get a first-taste.  Usually if you can get one to eat, any others will follow suit.  Sometimes it's necessary to force feed them just to ensure they get some food each day.  With the bird facing you, you should feed right to left.  Even if you can just get a few drops into their mouths at a time, this will help.  Water at this point is also very important...get them used to drinking out of a water dish or give them water in a handfeeding syringe.  You might buy some Pedialyte (for human infants)...this has electrolytes in it they might need.  Be careful though because they don't know about water and water dishes yet and could drown themselves if not careful, so just don't leave them alone at first with a water dish (remove it when you leave the room and put it back in when you're in the room with them).  You may have to dip their beak in the water or splash the water around so they know that it is in the dish (baby birds don't know about dishes yet, so they will have to get familiar with a food dish, too).  

Sounds like the vet was giving antibiotics and not knowing if they need these or not...bad veterinary practice.  I wouldn't give them the antibiotics unless they have some type of infection...doesn't sound like this is the case at all.  

Babies will always follow adult birds around begging for food!  This is just how they are!  They would follow you around begging, too, if they could!  

Why are you holding them down to feed?  This might be why they don't want to eat!  I've never had to hold any keets down to handfeed them...keets are the easiest baby parrots to handfeed.  It helps to steady their head between 2 fingers so you can get the food into their mouths, but you shouldn't need to hold them down at all in order to handfeed.  I'd also get the parents away from them into another room (or take the babies into another room) so they can't see/hear each other.  Sometimes this makes it difficult to wean/feed baby birds...they want to get back with their parents.

Some of these weaning foods you can buy at pet shops don't work...some birds just won't eat these foods.  Your best bet is healthy, nutritional human foods in different forms.  Try warm foods and foods at room temperature, but not cold at first.  Cooked brown rice is a favorite of baby keets I've raised...serve it to them warm.  You can mix in some scrambled eggs or other veggies for a healthy soft food mix.

See how the above goes and let me know.

Chrys
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It's me again, Krystal.  I remembered something I wanted to be sure you knew about.  Baby parrots bob up and down for a reason...it's called a feeding response.  They need to bob in order to close off the trachea opening so food doesn't go down into the lungs when you handfeed.  If food goes into the lungs, the bird can get aspiration pneumonia or aspirate (die) immediately.  This happens to humans automatically when we swallow.  Just wanted you to know why it's important for babies to bob and why we need to let them.  Makes for messy handfeeding, but that's what warm water and a wash cloth are for!

Chrys  


Krystal,

When I handfeed baby keets, I place my thumb and forefinger on either side of their head while I handfeed with the other hand.  My thumb and forefinger basically just keeps the head from going side-to-side while they are bobbing up and down.  I can deal with the up and down, but not the up and down and side by side at the same time!  I let them stand anyway they want to stand and move around where they want, as long as I have some control about where their heads go.  If I don't do this, I end up getting handfeeding formula all over the bird instead of in its mouth!

Chrys

Chrys

Answer
Hi again, Krystal.

When babies learn to fly (fledge), they would rather fly than eat.  However, you must make them eat when they need to by confining them to an area where their food is or something else (not let them fly for that period of time).  The babies will always try to beg for food from mom and dad and from you if they were imprinted to you/your fingers (from handfeeding).  The parents aren't feeding probably because it's time for the bigger one to wean...the parent birds know this and not feeding the baby is how they wean their babies.  It forces the baby to eat other food when it's hungry.  

As babies grow older, their crops won't "look" the same on the outside, but everything is exactly the same.  As a  bird grows bigger, it doesn't need to eat all at one time like when it is younger.  Also, the bird is longer/taller, so the crop doesn't bulge like it did when the bird was younger.  Even when covered with feathers, I can still tell when any of my birds have just eaten/have a full crop because their crop bulges.  Not necessarily as big as a baby bird, but to some degree the crop has to expand.  It's more difficult to feel food in the crop of an adult bird like you would a baby bird.

Daddy bird is the one who weans the babies.  Mom is usually preparing to go to nest again while dad teaches the babies to fly, eat other foods, maneuver in the cage, etc.  This is most likely why dad won't feed, but mom is a sucker!  

At 5 weeks of age, the older bird should be just about completely weaned.  Most of the keets I've raised are completely weaned at 6 weeks of age, meaning they are eating and drinking on their own and living in their own cage away from mom and dad.  There's no set time limit for weaning birds...they should be weaned at their own speed.  But you've got to let them wean when they are ready.  

Chrys