Expert: Bruce E. Johnson - 10/19/2008

Question
QUESTION: Hi Bruce,
I'm looking for your expert advice.  We are interested in a house (100 yrs)that has a major issue...one of the floor joists under the kitchen was literally butchered for some plumbing.  The kitchen floor under this joist really drops, and it feels as though the sub-floor may be cracked under the laminate flooring above it(I bet you could stub your toe on it!)  Also, the joists to the one side of it are all leaning toward it, probably due to the sinking of the floor?  We can't see the joists on the other side because that side of the crawl space (4') is full of dirt...probably from the dug out side...but I'm sure the joists are bending on that side too.  The rest of the house is very level and solid, so replacing this joist and supporting the twisted ones should solve the problem...but how?  Could you please tell me what would be the best way to fix this?  Can you even jack up a house that sits on a dirt crawl space to replace or repair the joist?  Would this kind of job be outrageously expensive?  Would it affect the whole house even though it is only in the kitchen?  I'm also concerned that the house's lovely crown moldings and 16" baseboards would be ruined.  Also, the cuts in the joist are about 3' from the foundation wall if that makes a difference.  I hope I didn't leave anything out!
Thanks so much!
M:)

ANSWER: Hi Monick,
A house mover can jack the house up generally without breaking anything.  They put large timbers under the bearing locations and then using hydraulic jacks they jack everything up at once.  However I'm not sure this is what you need.

First of all, any crawl space where the joists are sitting in dirt has problems, specifically termite or other wood destroying organism. Is it possible to remove the dirt to get access to the rest of the joists? Also, without knowing what condition the rest of these joists are in would make me uneasy about investing good money into this house unless it really is worth it.  What you are thinking are twisting joists may be rotted wood.  Or maybe someone removed the original bridging blocks between joists that are installed to keep them from twisting and leaning.

Many times I have done floor repairs from the top down meaning that you remove the flooring and decking and then when you have your joists exposed you do the repairs and then replace the decking and flooring.  This might entail removing the base cabinets and reinstalling them after the repair work is done.  If the floor is a laminate that is floating on a cushion, the laminate can be taken up and reused.  If the floor is a tongue and groove hardwood, it too can be removed and reused but it is a little trickier and there will be some wastage.  Also the old sub flooring (decking) can be replaced with plywood when the joist work is done giving you a good working surface for your flooring.

I hope this information helps feel free to write again regarding this or other matters, sincerely bruce e johnson..bejohnsonconsulting.com

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks Bruce,
I think what we need is the whole joist replaced.  I read that it is better to replace than to repair.  Anyways, I don't think I was completely clear.  The joists on the (we'll say) right side of the damaged joist are not sitting in dirt, the dirt is about half a foot below them.  The crawl space is about 4 feet on the left side but looks like it was shallower before and when they dug it deeper, they piled the dirt on the right side.  I hope that makes more sense...so yes, of course the dirt could be removed, but it would take a lot of time...we're talkin' about 3 feet of dirt under half of the house!  So it could not be done prior to purchase.  As for the twisted joists, they are definitely not rotted, but you are right that there are no bridging blocks between them, so this would help.  We could do it from the top, but I think it may be easier and quicker, and perhaps cheaper to do it from the basement, do you agree?  Do you have a general idea of what jacking a floor, replacing the joist, and adding bridging blocks would cost?
Thanks again for your help!

Answer
Hi again Monick, you are right.  If there is access underneath the house to get at the joist then definately that is the way to go.   I kinda got the impression that there were possibly other joists that needed replacing also.  But if this is not the case then so be it.  As far as costs go.  Something like this is more of a time and materials deal.  A handyman or carpentry contractor could do the job in a day probably.  They should be able to jack up the sunken floor also.  That entails just a small hydraulic ram jack and some minimal shoring.  So I would guesstimate that the whole job could be done for less than 2,000 dollars provided there are not a lot of joists that need replacing.  If you are going to get a deduct from the cost of buying the house to cover the work I would go for as much as you can get out of the seller.  If you can get two thousand dollars and it only costs fifteen hundred then you will be better off than if it costs 1500 and you only get a thousand..See if you can get a couple of written estimates prior to making your commitment for purchase.  I hope this information helps feel free to write again regarding this or other matters, sincerely bruce e johnson..bejohnsonconsulting.com