Expert: Bruce E. Johnson - 5/20/2009

Question
QUESTION: Hi Bruce,

I've got a 1971 home in southern PA.  I am trying to sister some 2x8 joists (99" span) which are supported on one side by a foundation wall and on the other by a double 2x8 (see attachment).  This double 2x8 is in place because it runs the length of a set of cellar stairs in the house, so that the joists cannot run to the I-beam in the center of the house.

The picture shows the odd construction that I have never seen before.  It is a "cross-cut" of a double 2x8 with a 2x3 tacked to it.  My concern is that each of the joists running under the floor is notched and sits on the 2x3, but it nailed to the double 2x8.

Have you ever seen a construction like this before?  If I am sistering the joists, can I remove the 2x3 in order to put the sisters into place?  Should I be notching my sisters to fit a 2x3 back into place or just use joist hangers in place of the 2x3?  

My guess is that the 2x3 was just a ledger to hold the joists for nailing because it has only 3 nails in the length of it (about an 8 ft. run).  This is being done in an unfinished basement in preparation for tile on the floor surface above.

Sorry if this isn't very clear, but I'll be glad to send pictures or further description if necessary.

Thanks!
Mark

ANSWER: Hi Mark, that is definately a ledger and should not be removed unless you have joist hangers or other form of mechanical tie attaching the joist to the ledger.  It is possible that there are more nails coming in from the other side to secure the joist and/or the ledger but nonetheless you need to keep the ledger or an equivalent. If the joist is sitting on the ledger why not just notch your sister to fit there also?..To be on the safe side while I was down there? I would get some simpson hangers of some type to slap on them joists anyhow and leave the ledger in place.  Maybe throw a few more nails in the ledger just for grins.. I hope this information helps feel free to write again regarding this or other matters, sincerely bruce e johnson..bejohnsonconsulting.com


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the info.  I was planning on using some simpson hangers or something similar just to add strength.  The problem I have with notching the sisters is that they do not fit unless I take out that ledger board.  They are too long to fit past the ledger and sit up against the rim joist on the opposite end.  I think I may have to take the ledger out in order to get them into place.  I've tried every which angle I can think of, but I can't get the sisters to fit into place.

Would there be any harm in removing the ledger and supporting the joists from below with lally columns or 2x4's temporarily until I can get the sisters in?  I would then put the sisters in place with angle-nail hangers AND put the ledger back into place...

If you've got any other ideas, I'm interested in any possibilities.  I updated the picture to kind of show the problem, but I am not great at drawing.  The point is, I can't seem to find a decent way to fit the sisters into place because of the sub-floor and the existing joists being in the way.

Thanks!
Mark  

Answer
Hi again Mark, you can probably just toe nail the existing joists to the beams and then remove the 2x3 without any temp supports, then slip some joist/beam hangers underneath the new doubled up joists and the single joists after the fact.I hope this information helps feel free to write again regarding this or other matters, sincerely bruce e johnson..bejohnsonconsulting.com