Expert: Bruce E. Johnson - 9/15/2009

Question
QUESTION: Why would you give advice that is not only wrong but that could cause great injury if these connections fail?  I've read two of your answers concerning ledger attachment to concrete foundations one where you tell someone that using lag shields and lag bolts to attach a ledger for a screened in porch and another of your answers you actually suggest using Tapcons to attach a ledger for a deck to a slab foundation.  Lag shields are made of soft metals and cannot handle the lateral forces put on a ledger board for the specified live and dead loads required.  I thought the lag shield answer was crazy till I read your other answer suggesting the use of Tapcons for a deck ledger into a slab foundation.  That's like telling someone to use 18 gauge brads when framing.  I don't know when the last time you picked up IRC or IBC books and read them but I would suggest you do before you give anymore advice.

ANSWER: Hi Jesse, I have used lag shield for years without problems the size and spacing of the lag bolt will determine the shear.  The same with tapcons with the proper embedment, sizing and spacing I don't foresee any problems with this type of attachment.  Expansion bolts and epoxy bolts are acceptable also.  I am not sure what answers you are referring to but some of my questioners are building simple decks with little or no lateral shear or pull out and the only weight the ledger is holding is a small amount of vertical shear.  I only make suggestions based on past experience and always caveat my answers by referring the questioneers to seek engineering advice before attempting any structural alterations or additions.  I have personally supervised over 150 million dollars worth of projects as Project superintendent and several hundred million dollars of structural concrete and building framing..what is your experience?

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QUESTION: Bruce, with your self proclaimed experience I'm surprised that your response to lag shields not being able to handle lateral forces is to talk about size and spacing of lag bolts to determine shear. Lateral forces on a ledger rarely cause shear they cause pull out of fasteners. You go on to say "expansion bolts and epoxy bolts are acceptable also" well that statement would be true if you omitted the word "also". It is not just my opinion that lag shields and Tapcons are not acceptable it is the position of the NADRA and the IRC which tests and uses findings of Structural Engineers to approve which fasteners are allowed. I hope you didn't build all the millions of dollars worth of structures you claim ignoring building codes and substituting your opinion. I'm sure a lot of people are impressed by your supervision of millions and millions of dollars worth of projects. I mean investors and financiers were impressed with Bernie Madoff and all those people lost was money. If you don't follow the rules people can lose their lives and that's why we have building codes. I wonder how the Catholic Church would feel about you dismissing codes and putting any of their parish in jeopardy. My experience is building projects by code or above and taking pride in the workmanship involved so that my clients are left with something that is not only safe, but that they can be proud of. My experience is also one where if I don't know an answer I don't give advice that could come back to harm myself or others. I also continually educate myself as codes and building practices change so that I can always be confident that I'm doing all I can to give my customers what they pay for. This in return pays 10 fold because about 90% of my work comes from recommendations. I hate contractors that screw people and give the rest of us a bad name and I hope your not one of those people.

ANSWER: HI Jesse, first of all, everything I do is repeat business.  Secondly I reviewed my answers regarding ledger attachment or wood attachment to concrete and only found one answer where I even suggested lag shields and in the same answer I mentioned that many locales do not allow lag shields for these connections.  Thirdly, the context of the question has to be considered.  If someone is connecting a simple ledger for a 5x8 wood deck at ground level there is little or no tension involved in the connection and therefore a lag shield  and or tapcon will be acceptable.  I never put my questioneers in jeopardy with my answers nor my clients and for you to get on your high horse and point an accusing finger at me is rude on your part to say the least. My reputation is impeccable and for someone who doesn't know me or who has never seen my work to compare me to Bernie what's his face then I guess you must be out of work and have a lot of time on your hand.  I never dismiss building codes and if you have ever read any of my comments I always refer to engineers and building codes as the final solution.  I belong to a board of design build professionals and have engineers and architects requesting my advice on a regular basis.  Furthermore if your advice is so valuable why don't you join allexperts and show us what it is all about.

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QUESTION: Hello Bruce, here is one of the links that I am referring to. http://en.allexperts.com/q/Building-Homes-Extensions-2333/Attaching-ledger-board
Since a deck needs to be able to support at least 55 lbs. per square foot according to code a 5x8 deck would need to support 2,200 lbs. and you would trust that to Tapcons. Let's contact Buildex (the makers of Tapcons) or the makers of lag shields and see if they recommend their products to be used for ledger attachment of a deck. What do you think the answer would be. Not to mention the largest Tapcon is 1/4" in diameter and 4" long. You go on to say you never dismiss codes, but above you still think lag shields and Tapcons are acceptable well that right there is dismissing code. I would have thought you would have picked up your copy of the IRC to check since we've being going back and forth on the subject, but I guess you are one of those guys who never admits they're wrong.  Maybe all of those architects and engineers you give advice to would be willing to do the same for you when your not 100% on your answer. Do you give advice to lawyers? Because if you keep giving wrong answers to questions that could cause someone harm physically or financially because their structure fails from following your advice you may need some advice from one. If you think I'm being rude and on a high horse for pointing out that your advice is wrong so that others aren't harmed then so be it. I'm sure a lot of the people on here are asking advice because they plan to do the job themselves because they don't have enough money to pay someone else to do it, so if their structure fails and no one was harmed they still are financially harmed from the cost of having to fix it. As far as comparing you to Bernie, I'm just trying to make the point that all your hundreds of millions of dollars of projects and your hoards of architects and engineers that seek you out for advice don't mean spit to me if your defrauding people. To boast about your credentials while telling them something they believe to be true because of your credentials when it's false is fraud. Sorry if I don't list my generous credentials and talk about the millions of dollars of projects that I've supervised but that's your high horse not mine. I don't need to boast to feel confident about myself. Sorry for being a little rude but you had two chances to open the book and come back to admit your wrong, but you continue to stand next to your pile of crap and claim it to be a rose bush.


Answer
whatever...gee I wonder what people used before wedge anchors and epoxy bolts?  How many freaking decks were attached to concrete with lag shields?   I would venture a guess that maybe .ooooo1 per cent had failures..but I don't even get where you are coming from!  My answers are based on information given me with the caveat to the questioner that there is no liability.  Because for one thing, it is a volunteer service..for another thing I don't get a chance to see site conditions or actual structural conditions..but if someone has a simple deck with a simple ledger attachment I don't feel adverse to giving them options as to the deck attachment.  I don't freakin care whether you think the advice is good or not.  I know what works in the field, I have 40 years of field experience.  I have had the same client for the last 15 years which means that almost everything I have built for this client has not only gone beyond the standard age for warrantee work but has gone even beyond the manufacturers warrantees in many cases.  I feel I can make suggestions to anyone that are valid and structurally sound.  Don't like it?  Tough.  The thing I carry with me throughout my construction history is horse sense.  If you don't have horse sense then you can't build.  My horse sense told me that lag shields would work in the question I answered.   Enough said..have a good life