Expert: Bobbert - 6/27/2010

Question
QUESTION: Hi, I asked you a question about building a computer a while ago and had a new question.

I am trying to decide on what processor to buy for my soon to be custom built PC and was wondering what your opinion was. I am trying to decide between the Intel Core i5, the Intel Core i7 920, i7 930 and the AMD Phenom II. The main purpose of this machine will be to play games but I also do some video editing and the usual movies and music. My goal is to build my PC for under 1000$ but I am willing to go all out on the processor. I know the i7 is superior to the i5 but is it enough of a difference for the price? Same thing with the i7 930 and 920.

Thanks.

ANSWER: I would look for some benchmarks comparing the models you're looking at, for the applications you're considering. Generally speaking there is a minimal difference between CPUs in game performance, especially between two so close as the Core i7 920 and 930. For example look at this comparison by Tom's Hardware:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-desktop-cpu-charts-update-1/Far-Cry-2-1.

So the absolute top of the pack, the Core i7 975, and the absolute bottom of the pack, the Athlon II X260u are both providing more than playable framerates for Far Cry 2 in that test (generally speaking 28-32 FPS is the "minimum" acceptable framerate for a first person/fast paced title, with real-time strategy and many role-playing/puzzle games you can usually get away with 18-24 as the "minimum") - granted there is a large performance disparity between the two. However if we move to the top of the pack, the i7 920 is barely behind the i7 975 (both are putting out frame-rates that the vast majority of displays aren't even able to handle, and they're close enough to more or less ignore any differences (variations between two similar machines could cause more of a difference than is shown in this test, for example)).

Now where you will see more pronounced differences is with video encoding (media playback will be no issue) - look here for example:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-desktop-cpu-charts-update-1/DivX-6.8.3,1

You can see the pack leader, again the Core i7 975, is completing the entire job in roughly 1/3rd of the time of the pack follower, the Athlon II X2 X260u. But again, the i7 920, many i5 models, and many quad and hexa core AMD's are right up there at the top of the pack. None of these chips will produce a lower quality product, they will just take longer.

I generally avoid "going all out" with hardware purchases - consider that the i7 975 has a retail price of something around $1000 US while the i7 920 or i5 660 may cost under $250 - that's a 400% price increase for maybe 10% better performance. Any of the chips you've selected would be more than suitable for the tasks you've outlined - the Core i5 will probably yield the overall cheapest system as LGA 1156 platform hardware is considerably less expensive than LGA 1366 platform hardware - the AMD hardware will probably be more on par with the i5 system in price as well. Given your budget, the Core i5 or AMD Phenom II would probably be a better choice (as it will allow you to purchase a CPU easily under $200, and a motherboard for potentially less than $100 (more likely around $150) - less expensive memory - and leave more in your budget for other important components such as the power supply and graphics adapter (the later has FAR more influence on gaming performance)).

If you have more questions, feel free to ask.

-bob



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hey Bob, thanks for all your help.

I have decided on going with the AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE and think I have found a motherboard as well http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131646

It has Crossfire capability which, even though for now I will most likely be buying one graphics card, leaves me options for the future. What exactly is USB 3.0 and is it feature I will ever use? Is this motherboard going to get me the most out of my CPU?

I have also decided on a power supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

Is this a high end power supply that will allow me to OC and run an extremely nice GC? (keep in mind I know nothing about graphics cards)

For RAM I am having a hard time deciding. Is RAM an important part of a gaming PC? should I be investing in 80-90$ RAM in order to save money for a high end graphics card or should I be investing in $150+ to really get the most out of my system. DDR3 or DDR2? 8GB, 6GB or 4GB?

Right now this is what I am looking at
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231304

Saving the most important for last, the Graphics Card.
I am no expert on graphics cards and so this is where I need the most help. I think I am looking for something in the 250-300$ price range but obviously I would not mind going lower. playing games with the highest settings and a superb fps is what I want most out of my graphics card.

I could really use some graphics cards recommendations because no matter how much research I do, I cannot find one that I am really confident about buying.

Thank you for all your help.

ANSWER: From the top:

USB 3.0 is the latest iteration of the USB standard - it simply allows faster data transfer rates with supported USB 3.0 devices (it will be backwards compatible with your older/existing USB devices) - this generally does not matter except for external disk drives and a few other exceptions.

As far as "going to get the most out of my CPU" - differences between motherboards in terms of performance are MUCH smaller than differences between CPUs - they're barely statistically significant (And in many cases this cannot even be accurately said - the stated variance for many benchmarks is larger than any recorded difference between two motherboards with the same hardware).

Now, regarding the power supply - yes it should be suitable - Corsair is known for their high quality products. As far as "an extremely nice graphics card" - this is a relativistic statement and there isn't a direct way to answer it.

Memory and its importance - as long as you've met the capacity requirements of whatever you'd like to run you will have no problems - higher speed memory may provide a slight advantage however having more memory than you need will do nothing for performance (the system will only use it what it requires, nothing more) - the type of memory you can purchase is restricted based on the motherboard - the memory kit you linked to is incompatible with the motherboard and processor you have chosen (if you'll notice, that is 3 DIMMs designed for a triple-channel solution; something your motherboard and CPU do not physically support). You will need to select a kit (or other combination) of memory that is compatible - DDR3 only and two, or four DIMMs of memory (you need two or four for dual channel operation). Something inexpensive should be more than suitable - there is no need to spend extra simply for corporate branding or brand recognition. 4GB is sufficient for all modern games and tasks - so that is what I would suggest - you can always upgrade in the future.

Now, regarding the graphics adapter itself - what size monitor and what games do you intend to run? Without those details, I cannot provide an accurate suggestion. What graphics cards have you considered thus far? And what are you concerns?

All of this aside, generally I do not suggest purchasing a system with the intent to overclock - buy the correct hardware in the first place and you shouldn't have any performance deficiencies when it comes time to put the machine to task. Overclocking your CPU is more or less worthless for game performance - again from the benchmarks I provided see how minimal the differences are between vastly different microprocessors in terms of overall performance. And consider that you will be limited to maybe 10-30% gains (in clock speed, not compute power) which will yield very little for actual gaming performance. In short, with any modern game (and the vast majority of upcoming titles I am aware of) you should not need to overclock any component of the system in order to play the title - assuming you do your homework and buy the right parts to begin with. The CPU and mainboard you have chosen are more than suitable for modern and future software titles - paired with compatible DDR3 memory and an appropriate graphics adapter you should have no problems running anything you wish while remaining safely in-warranty and without a whole lot of "tweaking".

-bob








---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: So I did some research on RAM and think I have found compatible sticks.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231303

However if these are not compatible I also found http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145265

The graphics card. I play a wide variety of games but I guess what I will be playing in the near future is games like Starcraft II and The Witcher II, basically all types of games. My hope is to find something that renders games extremely well and fast at resolutions of up to 2048×1536

Since my birthday is coming up I am hoping to buy a new monitor, most likely LCD and somewhat large, 22"-24"

I have been doing a lot of research on different websites but I can still not find a graphics adapter.

Answer
As you are purchasing an LCD - that will determine the operational resolution you'll be using. A 22-24" monitor can mean many things, from 1600x900 to 1920x1200 - all of which are below the 2048x1536 line. Are there any current, or released, games which you wish to play? If not, I would probably just wait the month for StarCraft 2 to be released and make your purchase then (I doubt if any new hardware is going to be released in this time - but existing hardware could see price reductions as well as giving you a better understanding of what will achieve your desired performance in StarCraft 2). Regarding The Witcher 2 - that game isn't slated to be released until 2011 and there is no guarantee that any modern hardware will run it smoothly at high resolution - you'd really need to wait until more substantive information is released by the publisher.

Based on modern games that are relatively demanding on a system, such as Fallout 3, Kane & Lynch: Dead Men, Left 4 Dead 1 and 2, and Half-Life 2: Episode Two, and given the size and resolution monitor you're looking to purchase; I would probably say that $250-$300 will potentially be somewhat above what an appropriate graphics adapter should cost (so there may be some savings there). The AMD Radeon HD 5770 or 5830, or the 5850 on the high end, should be more than suitable, from nVidia I would suggest the GTX 465 or GTX 470. The higher resolution of a monitor you decide to purchase, the more powerful graphics adapter you should consider - if you buy a 1600x900 or 1680x1050 display, the HD 5830 (or 5770) or similar would be an excellent decision; if you purchase a 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 display the 5830 will still be a suitable choice, however the 5850 will provide more rendering power and may give you a bit of an advantage with the larger display. You can look to spend around $150 on a 5770, and around $220 on a 5830 (nVidia's GTX 465 is around $250 and the GTX 470 is around $300, same as the 5850) - the 5770 is likely the most cost effective choice here (assuming you're purchasing a lower resolution display - if you're on a budget I would probably suggest this as you'll still have a wonderful gaming experience with a 1600x900/1680x1050 display and you won't have to pay as much to accomplish it), and the 5830 is likely the most balanced choice (as it would allow a higher resolution display to be used with relative ease, and prices in-between the higher end AMD offerings and the nVidia choices).

Regarding the memory, either of the kits you found would be compatible, however something inexpensive like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211364, would also be suitable - G.Skill also has a few variations on the kit you found for a few dollars cheaper (they also appear to be in-stock).

Overall, I would probably lean towards AMD graphics as you've selected a motherboard which supports CrossFire, and the price seems to be "right" given your needs - a single 5770 today could be supplemented with another board within the next year for higher performance (the same with a 5830 or 5850) depending upon your tastes and budget.

For reviews on graphics adapters, I like www.guru3d.com and www.techreport.com - Tom's Hardware also has a comparison chart for graphics adapters much like their CPU charts however it isn't updated as frequently as we all might like.

If you have further questions, feel free to ask.

-bob