Expert: Eileen Cronk - 2/19/2008

Question
QUESTION: I have stripped a 5 piece 100 year old mahogany bedroom suite with denatured alcohol. The wood is in great shape but the color on the sides versus the top surface show  the wear of a hundred ears of use.

The stain color inside the drawers looks like it was almost purple maybe cherry. How do we get a consistent color even if it is not the color of choice?

I plan on using a spray lacquer finish after staining. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

ANSWER: Hi Bruce
Nice to hear from you.
I am surprised that this mahogany set had this very dark stain applied.
A couple of things are going through my head here.
First you say you stripped with the denatured alcohol which is fine for removing a shellac finish which you obviously had, but it will not remove stain in my experience.
Is there a possibility that the color variance you are seeing is because the stain has not been removed?
Bruce, Mahogany is often referred to as "the king of furniture wood" and I agree with that. It is my experience that this wood stains consistently each and every time.
Second this purple cherry stain you see inside the drawers reminds me of a dye stain. You only have to encounter this dye stain once and you will never forget it.
When you refinish a piece with this dye it actually turns your hands, rags and gloves a red color. It takes days to get it off your hands.
While I have never seen it applied to lovely mahogany as its just not necessary, is there a chance thats what you have?
I will go under the assumption you have correctly identified the wood.
Your question.."how do we get a consistent even color even if its not the color choice?"
The answer..you will get a consistent even color on 100 year old mahogany if all existing finish and stain have been removed with paint stripper and fresh stain applied.
I love refinishing mahogany because the color is so beautiful.
There are limited color choices with this wood. It is what it is.
You cannot change it and you would not want to.
A final thought. It could be possible that the top has faded somewhat from sunlight.
If this is not veneer you could lightly sand the top to darken it a bit although personally I feel once the wood is bare the stain will even everything out.
I know you are going to ask what stain I use on Mahogany.
Only one..Minwax Special Walnut. One coat only applied with a rag and wiped back well.
Bruce this sounds like a lovely set and you have invested a lot of time in it.
Get lots of advice before you do anything further. And second opinions are great especially "hands on"
And please get back to me on this as I am very interested in this.
Regards
Eileen
PS another thought.
Could you try a small inconspicuous area with paint and varnish remover? Just to see if you get a lot of color off.








---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you so much. Your answer created more questions. I would be surprised if the wood was not mahogany due to the grain of the wood and the time frame when the furniture was purchased. The house it came out of was built in 1905 and the furniture was purchased about 1915 -1925. It stayed in this same house until a year ago.

No the alcohol did not remove the stain, some color came off on the rags after the finish was removed. I did not use stripper because I did not want to raise the grain or devalue the piece due to ignorance. The color differences are subtle. The top showing the most wear and the sides remaining the darkest. I did not know whether to try to match what is already present or use a stripper and start from bare wood. If use a stripper what would you suggest.

ANSWER: Hi again Bruce
I'm with you about raising the grain.
Some strippers will do this.
Here is the one I use that will not raise the grain

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1694&familyN

There is no other surface prep required after the stripping as this one leaves no residue either.
Personally I would strip the piece with stripper at this stage as it will not devalue the piece.
Its removing the original finish that can devalue a piece.
But please try a small test and see if its at all possible that this piece has a dye stain.
I feel certain you will be able to tell in a very few minutes.
So pick an area that does not show.
Brush on some stripper and wait a minute or two but don't let the area dry as stripper quits working when dry.
Then take a rag and wipe off. Look closely at the color on the rag.
The stain actually dyes the rag.
Then while the wood is still wet, rub your fingers over the stripped area.
Do they turn red? When you wash your hands you will have pink fingers.
Now if the test proves you have a dye stain, you are into a whole different ball game with the staining.
It is my opinion, after refinishing many pieces which had dye stain, that it was applied to furniture to camouflage "not so great" wood, a mixture of woods used on one piece or coarse grained wood.
The dye stain evened everything out.
I have also learned that after these dye stained pieces are stripped, you cannot use stains like Minwax on them...they look horrible. You must use dye stain again or apply a colored lacquer.
So you see its imperative that you ID the stain correctly.
And keep in mind that at this point the stain on your piece is intact so you could at this point apply your finish.
I feel you are not 100% certain on the wood type.
In my opinion, mahogany is one of the easiest woods to ID.
Mahogany is very fine grained with almost no knots.
If you see lots of open or coarse grain you do not have mahogany.
So its also important to ID the wood.
To this point you have made no mistakes, and I know you don't want any , so do your best to find these things out before going further.
And I'm here at my PC every evening if you need me.
A clear picture of the wood would be great (that was a tongue twister)
Regards
Eileen







---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Eileen,
Wow, I did not know what I was getting myself into.My local cabinet shop verified that the chest is mahogany but the front has a 1/8" veneer so that the grain matches from the top drawer to the bottom. He was impressed with the construction. On to the local furniture refinisher.
Now he said it was mahogany, very well built but I could not purchase a stripper with the strength he could and I would probably do more damage than I should. He thought it was a cherry stain and that it may be a dye stain. He also said I could not buy the types of stain at the local hardware. Obviously he wants to do the work but was pretty pessimistic about the quality I could expect if I did the whole process myself.

Thanks again,
Bruce

Answer
Hi Again Bruce
WoW back..LOL..the plot thickens...well not really
Bruce if this is in fact a dye stain, then your refinisher was correct that you cannot remove this stain with normal stripper.
Yes, some of it comes away with stripper but the wood remains dyed.
I mentioned that these pieces need to be re-dyed or a colored lacquer applied.
He is also correct that you cannot purchase this dye stain at the hardware.
The part that puzzles me with this is the fact that he cannot tell you for certain this is a dye stain.
This cherry color is so easy to spot after you have seen it a few times, but maybe he just had a quick look.
And those tell tale red drip marks inside the drawer fronts (every dyed dresser has them) are a dead giveaway.
Another puzzle to me is the fact that a dye stain was applied to mahogany.
I think I mentioned that I have never seen a dye stain applied to this wood as its just not necessary, but I haven't seen everything.
So we are still left with the fact that we must get an ID on this stuff.
So get the test done. You will know in 5 minutes what you have.
And please get back to me after.
Regards
Eileen