Expert: Greg Scholl - 12/24/2009

Question
Hi Greg,
I am desiring a dark mahogany low luster finish on oak cabinets and pine doors and trim (also pine.) I know I will need to tweak the stain color to get them to match. My problem is after telling cabinet maker to build oak cabinets I decided I didn't really want to see that much grain. But he had already purchase the materials and now they are built. The only technique I have had success with to give the color intensity and  hide the oak  and undesirable pine grain  is the following:
Oak; applied penetrating oil stain to the oak, then followed up with a Benjamin Moore polystain. This gave me the color I wanted plus blocked out some of the heavy graining.
Pine; applied wood conditioner, then followed the same two steps as the oak. Again it matched pretty well and masked much of the pine grain.

I have not read anything good about a polystain from anyone that has used it. The things I am reading on the Internet were referring to Minwax Polyshades, I believe they didn't like it because it didn't penetrate and hid the wood grain. I understand that polyurethane is not your first choice, but would you consider its use if it was needed to allow the stain to sit on top of the wood to help hide grain. And if you would, would you recommend spraying it on or brushing it on? Or is their another application that I have not considered. I do not have the skill or knowledge to work with dyes. I have worked with lacquers before and am not closed to this idea, if I could just get my oak and pine to match at the desired level.
Any suggestion you could make would be greatly appreciated. I have searched the archives, and hope I am not repeating a question.

Thanks,
Jan

Answer
Hi Jan, what you're attempting to do is an exercise in frustration to be sure.Trying to apply a Dark Mahogany finish to Oak and/or Pine isn't advised, and always looks a bit odd, as this is not a natural color for either of these species......Poystain is a Cabot product I believe, not a B.Moore product...and the Cabot product is a waterborne Acrylic product. These Consumer type products are really not capable of producing a finish that will be as durable, or look as professional as a sprayed on, properly applied, Professional finish utilizing shading, toning, and dye based color technology. Any of these "stain and finish in one" products (Polyshades included), just don't perform predictably, and do not approach the level of clarity, depth of color, and durability of more conventional, professional products. This type of finishing, where a "toning" coat is applied over a stained surface to hide imperfections, blend grain inequities, and produce an even color tone across a range of surfaces,( or a "coffe", "espresso", Chocolate" or other dark finish) takes experience, knowledge of the proper materials and techniques, and a high degree of skill with spraying and coloring techniques. This is especially true of trying to match two completely different woods like Pine and Oak.These do not lend themselves to these darker tones, the way Cherry, Walnut, Mahogany, even Maple can...and even if finished well tend to look odd because of the fact that it's usually out of place on lighter species...Dyes also have to come into place, as their colors are transparent, which is essential to render darker finishes. Trying to use pigmented stains to achieve these types of finishes just doesn't work.

"if I could just get my oak and pine to match at the desired level"
This may not actually be possible, as the two woods look SO different in grain consistency and structure...while you may be able to get them covered with a colored finish that comes close to each other, they will never "match", so this is a very subjective idea.....Everytime I have seen a job done with one of these "PolyShade" type products, they have typically been over applied, and yielded a far from professional looking finish.

"I understand that polyurethane is not your first choice, but would you consider its use if it was needed to allow the stain to sit on top of the wood to help hide grain."

In a word...No. Stain is only to be used on the wood at the wood level, any attempts at staining over a sealer, finish, or remnants of an old finish is risking a multitude of issues, most notably adhesion, Stain should not be allowed to "sit on top of the wood" at all. Color by stain needs to penetrate the wood fibers, and should always be wiped off well after each coat. This is why Dye technology is so important, especially when trying to color hard woods like Oak.Often a deep colored finish is the result of more than one stain type and/or color, combined with toning and shading or glazing techniques. Polyshades and the like are attempts at giving the consumer a way to approximate "toning" techniques by offering a colored clear coat, but application by brush, and actually getting a subtle, even affect with these products is quite tricky. These are also Consumer grade products..a properly applied Pro kitchen cabinet finish will last 20+ years, one will be lucky to get half that with Consumer grade polyurethanes and the like. We spray catalyzed Urethanes and lacquers, utilizing sealers, toners, and technologies that are not the realm of the DIY'er for several reasons...one of which is the amount of experience and familiarity with the techniques that one needs to have to be able to get the desired result. This is the "high end" of wood finishing, and requires a high level of skill.....I wish I had more to offer than just an explanation of the proper techniques, but I do not use the products you are trying to use for the reasons I have outlined above....and I think you will be hard pressed to get the results you are trying to achieve with those products and the types of woods you have chosen.I hope it helped a little, even though I'm sure it's not exactly what you were hoping to hear- please feel free to post back- regards- Greg