Expert: Eileen Cronk - 3/21/2009

Question
QUESTION: Hi!!!  I am moving into a house that has oak cabinets that are atleast 20 years old.  I have heard that old oak takes a stain really well.  Is that true?  I have tested stains on new oak and the colors dont seem to be very dark, I understand that oak in general is a hard wood though.

What would you recommend for the refinishing process?  My local hardware store pro's told me that sanding will be a waste of time, instead I should just hit it with a strong wood stripper.  Do you agree?

Also if I have to get a couple brand new oak doors then would the stain colors be off from the old oak to the new oak?  THANKS!!!! :)

ANSWER: Hi Geoff
Nice to hear from you.
Yes oak is hardwood and does not take a stain well because of it.
But as you have heard (likely from my posts), old oak takes a stain very well.
I do not consider your 20 year old cabinets old yet but they may take a stain better than new oak.
So the first thing you must do is a test before going too far.
Your local hardware is correct. Sanding is a waste of time. Hit the cupboards with a strong wood stripper. Use an MC stripper (the hardware guy will know a good one).
Do one door. Test various stains. Try both an oil stain and a gel stain.
The stain color will be different from new oak doors to your 20 year old ones but some adjusting of stain color will help.
I am including the info for the refinishing process as you requested.

INSTRUCTIONS
The first thing you must do is assemble the material to do the job.
The stripper is the most important item.  
I am hoping you can get "CIRCA 1850" brand paint and varnish remover in your area.
Here is a link
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1694&familyN
THis is an MC stripper.

MATERIAL LIST For the stripping stage.
1 gallon stripper
3 boxes of Bull Dog steel wool in medium grade.
One 3 inch oil based paint brush.
Rubber gloves (like you do dishes with), and a pair of cotton gloves inside the rubber ones.
People react differently to stripper. A lot of people feel heat through the rubber gloves, but I feel cold. Have no idea why.
An empty large coffee can. (for the stripper)
A couple of old tooth brushes.
Lots of old rags (I like t-shirts or cotton but for this first stage whatever you have)
Lots of newspaper to protect the garage floor
LOTS OF VENTILATION..A MUST
That's all you need to get started.
HERES WHAT YOU DO...
Remove doors and drawers to the work area. Remove all hinges and hardware.
Work in sections one door at a time etc.
Brush on the stripper with the brush. Stripper will quit working if it dries, so keep it wet till the finish softens.
While you are waiting you could apply the stripper to a drawer etc etc.
Then take a rag and wipe this mess off.
Then another coat of stripper, rag off again, then while the wood is still wet, take the steel wool and rub with the grain till the wood is nice and clean.
Depending on the material you are removing, another coat of stripper is often needed but you will know this as you progress into the job.
Use the toothbrush in crevices.
Thats all there is to it ...move to another section and continue.
No other prep is necessary...and DO NOT SAND
When the stripping is complete, stain  then 3 coats of poly.
Please let me know if anything is not 100% clear.
But before this you will do your test piece PLEASE.
Regards
Eileen



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks for the response Eileen!!  

One thing that we have been looking into is a process called "toning", Im sure your familiar with it.  Im told that its a process that puts a tightly bonded coat of colerant over the existing stain and varnish, followed by a protective seal.  I guess this is similiar to what furniture companies do.

I've had one painter tell me its not a good thing to do, I'ce had two painters recommend it, and then another proffessional recommendation for this process (by a 3rd party).  

Im told that either this or an enamel paint with a glaze is the only way to make oak look not like oak and actually have it come out well.  

What do YOU think?  I trust you :)

ANSWER: Hi Geoff
I know this is a repeat question but I have more to add LOL.
This toning you discussed. How did they say the surface was prepped?
You say it will be applied over the existing finish.
Could turn out looking like a painted surface.
Eileen

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Well as far as I know they apply a type of paint/enamel over the existing finish.  They do not prep the surface, other then making sure its clean.  According to them this is what furniture vendors do a lot when making furniture...  Its a process that allows furniture manufacturers to hide the "poor quality" wood/wood grain that would normally be visible if the wood were just stained.  

Im really confused on this.  Two painters have said NOT to do this now, but this other guy says its perfectly fine and will give me about 20 years of good wear.

The odd thing here is that all the painters say an enamel with a glazed surface would work, and in that situation none of them are going to strip the wood...  How could this be any different?  Im so confused.

Answer
Hi again Geoff
No need to be confused.
The toning process will be lacquers.
Yes this finish does make poor quality wood look good as you have been told but it will not hide the oak grain.
This finish should last at least 20 years.
One can only assume that the folks who will do the job know what they are about regarding the surface prep and the existing finish currently on your cabinets.
I have no doubt the enamel glaze will work also but it will have a much shorter life span.
Both methods do not require stripping so you are told.
This makes sense because what you want to achieve are dark cabinets.
I would strongly suggest that you get samples done of both processes.
And it goes without saying you want a written quote for the complete job.
And get lots of opinions on this. We have some really knowledgable experts on finishes on this site. Arm yourself with lots of info before you make any decisions.
Good Luck
Eileen