Expert: Greg Scholl - 1/10/2010

Question
QUESTION: I am using soft maple for trim. I have been staining it to a dark, slightly red color before finishing with polyurethane. The process I use is sand(130 grit), apply a diluted water based dye to help the stain archive the right color, sand again (150 grit), apply minwax oil based stain (brush on, wipe off after a few minutes), and finally apply polyurethane.

The stain color looks perfect as I wipe it off the wood but as it dries, some areas of the wood get extremely dark. What can I do to preclude this "darkening"?

Thanks

ANSWER: HI Daron, you should sand the bare wood down to 180-220, apply your dye stain, and then no further sanding. There should be no reason to sand after the staining process begins.If you do, you're sanding through the dye coat in places. If the wood is the right color after you wipe the final coat of stain off...it might dry looking a bit differently, but when re-wet with the poly it will be the same color again, if anything it will be slightly lighter after drying. Sanding should never be done on a stain coat......If by "dark" you mean blotchy, you can use a stain pre-conditioner that will also keep the stain from penetrating too much. You could also use a Gel stain instead of the Minwax (actually Minwax makes a Gel stain line, and they're typically MUCH better stains then the "yellow can" oil stain)..Gel stains have stronger color strength, and because they are in a thick polyurethane carrier, tend not to blotch on softer woods as much as the typical oil stain. Another trick is to apply a thinned coat of an Acrylic Urethane, or a dewaxed shellac, as a pre stain conditioner.Some experimentation on scraps will be in order to develop a good schedule....also if diluting a waterborne dye stain, use the correct thinner ( a glycol ether base) and not plain water. Water will tend to raise the grain, another reason to sand the bare wood to a finer grit before the staining. Hope that helps- post back if need be- regards- Greg

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks, I will give the GEL stains a try. Blotching is what I'm seeing but it seems to occur as the stain dries - some areas get very dark.
I've tried the preconditioner but it actually made the blotchiness worse.
I was sanding after the dye coat to knock down the raised grain - just slight sanding.

Will the Gel stains resist fading better than the typical oil stain?

Thanks again

Answer
The pigments used in the Gel stains aren't likely to resist fading any better, but any of those stains should be good for several years before noticeable stain fade...did you try to finish over the dried stain? The stain won't darken as it dries...it will likely change in appearance...looking drier, but it's not possible for it to actually get darker...and remember, NO sanding after you've started the staining procedure. Sand the bare wood to a finer grit, wet the wood with a dampened sponge (plain water) and let that dry, then knock the grain down once more with the finest grit (220), THEN start the staining process, trying not to saturate the wood too much with the Dye will also help.It's always the temptation to apply stains heavily, let them sit and wipe them off lightly to try to achieve a dark rich color, but it's much better, (and more correct) to sneak up on the deeper colors with several thin coats, wiped off correctly in between, and allowed to dry thoroughly before the next step. Also, using the proper stain products, Dyes, Gels, and more professional products in conjunction with each other, rather than the ubiquitous yellow Minwax can.It takes a little more effort to find the Pro level products, but it's worth every minute of the search and procurement....Also,work quickly with dyes, and remember NOT to use water to thin ANY waterborne product.( the rare exception is less than 5-10% by volume in certain products) Manufacturers will make a thinner for the given product..... use that...people call it "water based", but it's really not...it's "waterborne", Glycol mono Ether based, soluble in H20. Also, the trick with the diluted Acrylic Urethane clear as a stain conditioner can work well with blotchy prone woods. You can apply an even, diluted wash coat on the sanded bare wood, let that dry overnight, and LIGHTLY rub smooth with a ScotchBrite pad, (IF it needs it), and then stain. You'll likely need an additional stain coat to achieve the darker hues, but you'll be rewarded with an even, uniform stain color...without any "blotchies". It's a learned technique.....but not rocket science.....