Expert: Greg Scholl - 1/15/2010

Question
QUESTION: I am staining kitchen cabinets with Sherwin Williams concentrated wiping stain. It was going well until just now. On one particular piece I have places that didn't take the stain well and are much lighter than the surrounding area, no change in the wood grain. I know my mistake, but I am not sure how to fix it.
I had sanded all cabinets to 120 with an orbital sander. But, on this one I had to make a repair and hand sanded with 220 in a small area. This is where I got the lighter shade after staining. Should I go back with 120 to rough it up in that area then reapply the stain?
I have also made this same mistake on a couple of other pieces but I have not stained them yet. Can I just go back over them with the 120?  Will that open up the grain?

Thanks,
Jan

ANSWER: Hi Jan, Are these raw, unfinished, wood? Or were these previously finished? If they were, then it's more likely that this is caused by the remaining finish on the cabinets.. trying to stain over an existing finish is a NO-NO...the proper way to prep these cabinets would be to strip them....not sand. Sanding does not get you down to the wood, unless done VERY aggressively, (like on a floor).A kitchen cabinet finish is a multi part finish, some having up to 15+ individual steps, and they will seal the wood at the pore level. The sander will cut through in some spots, and not in others, leaving you with areas like you're describing...but more importantly, it can also leave you with adhesion problems and drying issues (stain and topcoats) If these are raw, bare wood, then yes you'll need to make sure to sand them all the same to expect the stain to "take" the same way overall.As you desribed, the finer grit will "burnish" the wood to a different level, affecting the staining. What kind of wood are we talking about? If these are Oak, then 120 is just fine enough, but pretty much any other wood should be sanded finer, or you're going to have trouble getting a smooth finish easily.....please post back- regards- Greg

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sorry, I left out those important details.
Yes, these are raw unfinished cabinets. They are oak. The one particular area that gave me the trouble is oak veneer. It was on a seam where I had to fill the brad holes with wood filler, then sand. Didn't think about what I was doing, boy have I learned a valuable lesson.
The only thing that has been put on them is the concentrated stain by Sherwin Williams, no sealers.
So, I can fix this by sanding with 120  since no sealers have been applied. Once it had been sanded to 220 will going back with 120 bring it back to that texture as if I had not used the 220?


BTW, I had previously written asking about using a Benjamin Moore combination of stain in polyurethane to achieve the dark mahoganey color on the oak. Just wanted you to know that I TOOK YOUR ADVICE and steered away from that. Went to Sherwin Williams commercial department to get a dye mixed. The guy made me a concentrated wiping stain to match what I had in mind. I am very pleased with the color I am getting with one application of this stain on the oak. Have been studying Bob Flexner's book "Understanding Wood Finishes" and am not certain but I suspect this stain is part dye. It dries very quickly. I plan to follow up with a no-wax shellac as my sealer coat, then a brushing lacquer by Deft. Do you see any problems with that? I will call the guy at Sherwin Williams to find out what the solvent is in the "stain" to make sure it is compatible with the shellac and lacquer. I did a test of this schedule and the only problem I had was in corners the shellac lifted off the stain. I suspect I didn't get the corners wiped good and left stain sitting on the wood. On the flat runs I didn't have any problem.
Hope I am not asking too many questions. Just want to make sure I don't mess these up.

Thanks,
Jan  

Answer
You need to know what type of stain base he's made you when contemplating your topcoats...if the shellac lifted the stain, then it sounds like a dye based stain.... waterborne(Glycol ether based). Plywood will always take stain differently than the solid wood...and it has to be compensated for with toning or additional staining.(or both). But once dry, the stain shouldn't be lifted anywhere by the next step....Hard to know if you'll be able to spot blend those areas back again without dealing with the whole area. I am concerned in your selection of Deft though. This is a conventional Lacquer designed for furniture and will not stand up to a kitchen environment. It is NOT moisture resistant. You'd be much better off with a urethane, either Acrylic or oil based. These will stand up better for sure. Ideally you should be looking at a Sherwin Williams topcoat..they make some excellent cabinet finishes for the kitchen cabinet industry. Trying to brush finish a whole kitchen full of cabinets is a huge job, and even if you're a wizard with a brush (if you're not, you will be....lol), nothing approaches the beauty, depth, ease of application and smoothness of a sprayed on finish. There's also no need to worry about moving around any stain/glaze coats because there's no physical touching of them as there is with a brush, just a few of the reasons spraying is superior...also these finishes are catalyzed, and will be 5+ times more durable than what you're contemplating. Deft will start to show wear in as little as a year....these coatings will be beautiful and maintenance free for 20+ years...there is no comparison. A urethane will offer you better durability, longer application time, (lacquer dries very fast as you're applying it), and better water resistance....but even a consumer type urethane will last 3-5 years most likely...if it's a small kitchen, you could use an aerosol product, while a little more expensive, you will be able to apply a superior looking finish without risking botching the stain job, and eliminating the shellac, which also dries very quickly and is difficult to apply unless one is experienced.....