Expert: Jamie Yocono - 4/26/2010

Question
QUESTION: Hello,
I've just moved to a tiny retirement apartment.  Space is at a premium, so all (well, most) of my books will have to be housed on a single wall in my bedroom.  Available space is 80 inches  wide by 8 feet high, and I need to use every inch of it.  It's an inside wall (divided bedroom from living-room).  Big box store sold me TripleGrip anchors (plastic with locking wings) rated at 154 lbs in 5/8 drywall.  Concrete building holds 120 units and was built in the 80's.  I've no idea what's in between the walls -- wood studs, metal studs.  Stud finder is "finding" studs that are some 6 inches wide, so I doubt it's finding wood studs.  I'll be installing two sets of 40 inch wide, floor to ceiling shelves; I'll be using 11 or 10 inch wide pine.  Each set will have 8 shelves.
Assuming that I don't find any studs, will my anchors be adequate?  I'm trying to minimize cost; will two standards per set of 40 inch wide shelves be enough?  I want to do this right -- I'll be here for many years.  I'll use butterfly screws, but only if I have to.
Last question: are two sets are 40 inch wide shelves better (safer, stronger) than one set of 80 inch shelves?  
Thanks!

ANSWER: Marie,

I don't think those TripleGrip anchors will hold the weight you're planning on putting on those shelves. Sure, you can do the math and calculate the load, but I still don't think they're going to work.

Also, your last question - are two 40" wide shelves better than one 80" shelf is a good one, because the thing to question here is the span of the shelves. The wider the span, the more it can sag. Here is a sag calculator that's very easy to use - punch in a couple of things, like load and what sort of material you're using, and it will show you the amount of sag you're going to have.

Check this out: http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm

I can't tell from your e-mail if your walls are concrete block or wood studs, but that makes a difference. If the building is a concrete building, are the walls made of concrete block? You need to find out before you can take the next step on planning your shelves.

For concrete block, I recommend using some sort of a toggle bolt to attach your standards to the wall. They're a little tricky to use, but they won't ever pull out. Or - let's put it this way - it's probably not going to happen. But it could with those TripleGrip Anchors.

I just feel like the support system you're planning on using is a little weak for the heavy load you will have. You need a heavy duty load shelving system. Check out this: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32145&cat=1,43326

They even have a bolt that you can use for concrete block situations. I know these are heavy and somewhat expensive, but I just don't think the system you're planning is going to be sturdy enough. The two big things you need to think about are this -

Your fasteners pulling out of the wall
Your shelves sagging

The sagging part is easily remedied - just put your supports closer together so there is not as big of a span. But the issue is the fasteners. You have a little work to do, as far as figuring out what is inside your walls.

Good luck, write back if you need more help.

Jamie Yocono
Wood It Is! Custom Cabinetry
Las Vegas, NV
www.wooditis.com
My woodworking blog: www.wooditis.blogspot.com


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Walls are not concrete -- I can nail a long finishing nail right through; in the places where the stud finder tells me there is a stud, the nail goes in about halfway and then nothing, but nothing can drive it in any further.  Metal studs?  I don't know, and have no way of finding out.

So I'm dealing with drywall.  I've hung heavy loads of books on drywall before; I used butterfly screws, and the wall of books was solid as a rock.  I was trying to avoid the ridiculously large holes; a Home Depot guy handed me a box of TripleGrip anchors and told me they'd be more than enough for my purposes.  Wanted to double-check, though, and I'm glad I did.  
Since I'm dealing with drywall and will be setting up two sets of floor-to ceiling 40 inch long shelves -- what kind of fasteners would you recommend?  I need the standards to be in rather specific locations, so I'm pretty certain I won't be lucky enough to hit a wood stud.
Thanks again,

Marie

Answer
Marie,

The builder wouldn't have used a combination of wood and metal studs, and I can't think of any reason why your nail would only go in half way and then stop, unless you're hitting a metal plate that electricians sometimes use to keep you from hitting wire in the walls. Something odd is happening inside your walls. Plus, you mentioned in your first e-mail that the studs seem as if they're 6" wide. That doesn't make any sense.

I would use screws into the studs where you can, when the stud layout works OK with where you want to place the shelves. Then on the other drywalled areas, I would use toggles. I just don't trust the TripleGrip anchors to hold very much, I have never had good luck with them. Toggles are quite strong, and the force on the drywall is spread out much more with a toggle than with one of those anchors.

For a 40" wide shelf that is going to have a full load of books, I would want either three standards per shelf, or two that are in a bit from the ends, like 8" or so from the ends. That puts your center span at about two feet, which wouldn't be so bad for a heavy load.

Good luck, I hope this helps.


Jamie Yocono
Wood It Is! Custom Cabinetry
Las Vegas, NV
www.wooditis.com
My woodworking blog: www.wooditis.blogspot.com