Expert: Greg Scholl - 7/19/2011

Question
QUESTION: we are refinishing an old oak table and chairs and want to stain them so that they will look more brown than the golden or orange color they look now can you suggest a color or a way that we can get a brown color.
Also I read some of your answers about stain and varnish remover and tried as you suggested the "semi paste" from Ace and it worked great. Thanks for the suggestion.xu5lt

ANSWER: HI Steve, Oak has a natural amber/yellowish hue to it, so it can be a bit tricky to keep that from coming out when refinishing. As it's a very hard wood, the typical oil stain will not be able to really change that much, but a dye stain can. General's line of waterborne dyes can probably help get you there, but I caution you about using dye stains if you've never used them. They are Dyes, first and foremost, so they are more permanent than pigmented stains, and working with them is a bit trickier as well, to prevent lap marks and such, one needs to work quickly, flooding the whole surface and then wiping immediately and evenly. They penetrate much better on hard woods, but they are more permanent too, if you make an error or use the wrong color.....often I will use a dye stain and then follow that with a Gel stain to get a deep color on something like Oak. Gel stains are a pigmented stain in a polyurethane base..they have strong color strength, and augment the dyes very well.Then you want to choose a topcoat that has very little amber/yellow color, as most varnishes and poly's do. I really like General's Satin Gel Top Coat for this..it has a very light 'straw' like color similar to lacquer, and it's extremely easy to apply and get Pro results with.....it smells nice (and not strong), and dries predictably and hard for a durable finish. Woodcraft will carry these products if you have a local store...or you can order online.....hope that helps- post back if need be- regards- Greg

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2005555/16555/Clear-Satin-Topcoat-Gel-Stain-12-

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2005555/GENERAL-Gel-Top-Coat-and-Stains.aspx

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2020491/General-Finishes-Water-Based-Dyes-.aspx

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QUESTION: Greg thanks for answering so quickly. Could I use just the Gel Stain and get close to the look I'm trying for? I know without you seeing the table and chairs I'm working on it's hard to know what will and will not work and I appreciate your help. The grain in the back of the chairs is very dominant and really grabs the stain. I've stained them once and am stripping them now because they turned out so bad. I've refinished other pieces of furniture but this has been the hardest, that's why I've ask for the help. Thank you again for your help.

ANSWER: Sometimes Oak takes stain better than other times...depends on a few variables...but the only way to know for sure is to do a test...you might be able to get the results you're looking for with just the Gel....and you can apply 2 coats as well to deepen the color, just wait until the first coat is dry..(overnight)....if the pieces are quartersawn, then you'll have flecks or areas with hard grain and that will take the stains differently.....

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QUESTION: The grain on the backs of the chairs looks to have flecks of black after staining them with "provencial" by minwax. after they dried they were very dark I was hoping to have a medium shade. Can you suggest a gel stain color that might work I realize that is asking a lot, maybe a gel stain that doesn't have an amber or yellow to it.  Thank you again for your prompt reply.

Answer
Did you wipe off the stain well after you applied it?...it's imperative to wipe it OFF well after application...many people leave it on too thick and it will cause many issues and look muddy. I use Java, Brown Mahogany, and Antique Walnut Gels a lot....and the colors can be intermixed as well.Again, a lot of the amber color is going to be natural from the Oak...it's just the nature of the material....but the gel stain will help mute it better than an oil stain like Minwax...especially on the second or third coat....again, sneak up on your final color with multiple coats with the required dry time in between coats (or else subsequent coats will remove the previous application)...you can even build the color with individual coats of multiple colors....but it's usually better to intermix to get a good final color...then increase the color strength by multiple coats.The Gel stain is unique in that it is very thick, (like pudding), and it is in a polyurethane binder, so it seals as well as colors.Once you try them you'll understand and you'll never go back.......you'll have to experiment a little to arrive at a final color/look that is where you want to be...luckily, they come in pints, so you can buy a few small cans without a huge expense.