Expert: Jamie Yocono - 9/26/2006

Question
Hi Jamie

I feel most of your points are right on!

I decided to use, the big box Lowes 3/4 red oak,
only 42 bucks a sheet.

I will build the frames, buy the doors and draws
in unfinished Red oak this way they will finish easier on matching.

As for the inside of the boxes, I am thinking of "Nevamar White High Pressure Laminate" for easy cleaning and maintenance.

Then if the rotary cut is not to ugly maybe finish the outsise of the boxes the same as the doors/draws.
If there ugly, I will apply a wood oak Laminate to the ends only.
This one looks good for the exposed ends.
http://www.nevamar.com/CompanyInformation/detail.asp?cl=1&cg=3&i=269

Thank You for you advise, if you see any flaws
in this plan please advise!

TY Mike

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Followup To

Question -
Hi

I am planing on using white oak 3/4" ply for kitchen cabinets.
I was quoted $118 per 4x8 sheet when and if available.
What am thinking is using 5/8 pine ply with oak veneer added to both sides instead.

Questions,
1. Is this a good idea or should I wait until I can get 3/4 "A" grade white oak at $118 is available?

2. If adding veneer to 5/8 ply is a good idea,
what brand name veneer and thickness also type paper back, wood, etc. should I use?

3. What type of glue and how long should I vac.  it in the bag after gluing?

4. Last is southern pine a good choice or would 5/8 "b" grade oak or maple be better for appling veneer to?
I want to avoid using MDF or waffer board.

I guess that 10 mil paper back vereen scares me!
I would like a thicker veneer, if only I could find the old 20 mil of years ago.

TY Mike


Answer -
Hi Mike,

This turned into a long answer, so grab a drink and put your feet up.

I love white oak, and use it as frequently as I can. But truthfully, I've rarely seen it available as a plywood. Oh, I know it's out there, but most of my plywood suppliers don't stock it. Red oak is what they stock.

That said- I think you need to consider exactly how much of the actual white oak is going to show in your kitchen. I just finished a kitchen done in Cherry. In this kitchen, the only areas where the Cherry actually showed was next to the refrigerator, the two upper cabinets on either side of the sink, and one base cabinet where the run of cabinets ended. So in those four areas, I needed Cherry plywood. In the rest of the areas, there is absolutely no wood that shows.

So what did I use? A melamine panel, which is much easier to keep clean in the kitchen, and is less expensive.

I know, I know- a true wood purist would scoff at the idea of using melamine. But the bottom line is- my customers like melamine, they don't need to use liners in their cabinet bottoms. And for the stove opening (this kitchen used a free standing stove) both sides of the opening were melamine, which means when someone spills something down the side of the stove, the melamine won't stain like wood would stain.

I think if you want to use the white oak- and I am all for it - I think you should use it selectively. There's no reason to use it for an interior base cabinet that is going to hold a stack of drawers. You will never see the inside of it, and you sure won't see the outside, if it's in the middle of a run. Save the money, time and energy, and make it out of a less expensive material. If it were me, I would consider using a Baltic Birch plywood, which is strong and much less expensive. If you add a face frame, you'll never know the difference. If you edge it in a solid wood, as you would do in Euro-style cabinets, you still won't know the difference.

To answer your questions- I don't think it's wise to veneer the pine ply. I think it's over kill, a waste of time and money. And- you mentioned using 5/8" inch plywood. That seems a little thin to me. I still like 3/4" panels, and even if you put veneer on 5/8" plywood, you're still not going to make it 3/4."

My advice would be this- figure out how much of the actual panel stock you need in white oak. I suspect it will be just a few sheets. Buy those few sheets, and leave veneering to someone else. It's expensive, and beginners often have problems doing it correctly.  I am not trying to dissuade you, but instead, steer you in a more productive direction.  I think a kitchen in White oak would be spectacular. Take the money you save on all the veneering and put it where it will show, as in hardware, doors, and drawer faces. Or good quality hinges and drawer glides.

OK, Good luck, I hope this helps. Please feel free to write back if you have any further questions after reading this. And if this answer was helpful... please take a minute and rate my service. Thanks!

Jamie Yocono
Wood It Is! Custom Cabinetry
Las Vegas, NV
www.wooditis.com


Answer
Mike,

You didn't mention what area you're from, but since you mentioned buying from Lowes, you're probably in the US, right? The reason I ask is because there are better sources for plywood than Lowes. At an exclusive plywood supplier, you might find a product that has Oak veneer on one side, and a white melamine on the other. This will cut your time in half, if not more, and your costs, too.

Another thing- you need to be a little careful about applying laminate to one side of a panel, and not the other side. This creates an unequal balance, and makes the panel subject to warpage. Now- if the panel is screwed and glued into place, and butted up next to another panel, as might happen with a base cabinet, then you'll probably be OK. But you need to be aware of that.

Another thing- you must have an artistic eye, as most people wouldn't even know the difference (or care!) about using white oak vs. red oak. So I strongly urge you to look for plain sliced veneer on your plywood, rather than rotary cut. It's out there, you just have to look for it. There is a magazine that I get in the mail- called Custom Woodworking Business and their website is:

http://www.iswonline.com/cwb/index.cfm

Cut and paste that in your browser, and then do a search on their site to find a plywood supplier in your area. You'll find a much better selection that what's available at Lowes, and the prices might be a little cheaper, too.

As far as doors and drawer fronts go- look at Cal Door if you're near the West coast, and MapleCraft USA if you're on the East coast. I've used both, and their websites contain a lot of information about choosing doors, styles, species, drilling, and more. You'll learn a lot from their sites, and might even find their prices are competitive with who you were planning on buying from. I just ordered 22 doors from Cal Door and got them in 10 days.  Gotta love that.

Good luck, you're on the right track with everything.

Jamie