Expert: Jamie Yocono - 1/11/2007

Question
Hi,
I enjoy reading and have benefited from your remarks. Therefore, I am returning with another question.

Thus far, I have not created a dining table and chairs, but would like to take that challenge.  I have seen many websites with info about making chairs and tables.  Perhaps you have some websites that are better for providing plans, info, hardware etc.

I also have these questions.
Are there industry standards for:
the width of the apron?
the width of a table leaf?
the spacing of the table alignment pins?
the height of the table?

Also I would like to create a rectangular table top from solid wood (most likely oak), with a bread board trim effect.  I am worried about attaching the bread board trim to the end grain.  If pocket hole joinery without glue, was used to attach the bread board trim against the end grain, do you feel the design of pocket hole joinery would allow sufficient wood movement?

Thanks.
Joe

Answer
Hi Joe,

Thanks for your comments about some of my past answers, I appreciate the feedback. This turned into a long answer, so grab a cup of coffee and put your feet up.

Your questions about table making specifics are broad, and I'll try to help. I consider myself to be an expert in table making, so I feel pretty confidant that I can steer you in the right direction. But please remember- there isn't one "right" way to do something, there can be more than one solution to a woodworking problem. So these answers are just my opinion, based on many years of building furniture.

First, your question about websites for woodworking plans... you know, sites come and go so quickly, it's amazing. I have a couple dozen bookmarked in my computer, and half of them don't even exist anymore. So as far as recommending a site for plans, I only have a few to offer. Here are a few sites that I look at, from time to time. Don't be fooled by the first one, it's run by the woman who runs Rockler Woodworking Stores, and it's very helpful. Lots of guys visit the site; it's not just for women.

http://womeninwoodworking.com
http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com
http://www.woodzone.com

I have to mention this- I've never purchased a plan for a piece of furniture. Bear with me a minute as I explain something- you asked about industry standards, and yes, there are standards by which most furniture is built. So when I see something that interests me in a woodworking plan, I might use certain details of something, coupled with dimensions that I know are required. For example, most dining tables are 29-30" high. If I see a design that has an interesting apron or unique legs, I'll try to figure out the scale and dimension of those parts, knowing that the table height is around 30".

There are many books out there that help with these industry standards and solid design principles. My favorite is "Designing Furniture: From Concept to Shop Drawing: A Practical Guide by Seth Stem. This book is out of print, but you can find it on eBay and on Half.com. It's a shame this book isn't being stocked in bookstores all over, it's very helpful and I think the best design book out there.

My point is- once you learn the various design principles, coupled with industry standards, and then add in some skills at the basics of woodworking, like machining various joints- you'll be designing your own furniture, instead of using someone else's plan.

I think that's important, if you hope to grow as a woodworker.

OK, on to your questions-

Are there industry standards for the width of the apron? This depends on the table height. You need about 25" from the bottom of the apron to the floor. So depending on the table height and the table top thickness, you'll have to adjust the width of the apron accordingly. I usually make mine about 3" or so.

the width of a table leaf? I don't like table leaves, the mechanism is expensive, and I've not found one that I really like. So I stay away from making tables with leaves. However, I think that most are made with a standard dimension, like 12" or 18", something like that.

The spacing of the table alignment pins? I am not sure what you're talking about, do you mean the pins that align the leaves? If so, I've seen them on 12" spacing. You don't need many.

The height of the table?  Seth Stem's book says tables should be 27 1/2 to 30" tall. I like a 29" high table, it fits with most of the chairs that I build with a seat height of roughly 18" off the floor.

OK, on to your breadboard question.... I do not like them, and I'll tell you why. I've made a few tables with breadboard ends, and frankly, the wood movement scares me and leaves the table top vulnerable to splitting. You've got wood moving in two directions, something's gotta give. I don't like the idea of pocket hole joinery, you'd have to elongate the holes to allow for some movement, and it's not an exact science. So I would stay away from pocket holes and stick with wooden pegs that give a little. The breadboard ends I have made utilize a center wooden peg, that is fixed, and so the breadboard ends can undergo some movement at each end.  But the breadboard isn't glued.

I seem to recall a recent article in Fine Woodworking Magazine about breadboard ends. I just did a search, and found an article in the March/April 2000 - #141 issue. On  page 74 there is an article, but it's not the one I was thinking of. But I just read it and it basically said the best way to attach breadboards is through a series of tenons on the table top, going into mortises on the end caps. Pin the tenons with wood pegs, and hope for the best. Breadboard ends are usually incorporated for two reasons- to help keep the tabletop flat, and for aesthetics. But if you attach the top correctly, you should not have any cupping or bowing, so basically, it's for looks.

Personally, I cannot justify the extra work and the worry about movement that breadboard ends create. That's just my opinion, they lend themselves to atmospheric problems.

Finally, if you look at my website, I have some thoughts about building a dining room table and chairs. It's not as hard as it sounds, but you should go into it knowing that you'll need to have a decent space to organize all the parts. Each chair had 30 parts, and I made eight chairs. So I had 240 parts laying all over in piles, it was quite chaotic!

I couldn't have done it without a power Mortiser. I don't think any other tool would accomplish what that tool does. I didn't want to use dowels for my joints, not would I attempt any other joint. A mortise and tenon is the only way to go, so if you don't have one, you might have to consider buying one, even a small table top one will do for chairmaking.

Last thing- there are two books you should look at:

Chairmaking and Design by Jeff Miller
Dining Tables by Kim Carleton Graves

They are helpful, and give some solid information specific to your questions. I believe they should be at your local bookstore, so you can check them out before purchasing them.

OK, good luck, I hope this helps. Please feel free to write back if you have any further questions after reading this. And if this answer was helpful... please take a minute and rate my service. Thanks!

Jamie Yocono
Wood It Is! Custom Cabinetry
Las Vegas, NV
www.wooditis.com