Expert: Peter Messaline - 12/1/2009

Question
QUESTION: Hi,

I am a twenty-two year-old university student majoring in finance in Montreal, QC, Canada. I am a beginner actor with little training or experience. In the last year and a half I have taken seven acting classes, been in three plays (two leads), and did voice over work for one film. I feel like I am at a crossroads in my life where I am considering going into acting as a career (specifically film & television), or alternatively, continuing taking a more conservative approach and staying in school.

Having a lot of money is very important to me. If money did not exist I would become a professional actor, but to be honest, I wouldn’t be satisfied if I didn’t have a few million dollars to my name ten years from now.

I have searched salary.com and the US department of labor and they have only confirmed what I already know – that the mean annual salary for an actor is low and that only a small percentage of actors are highly successful.

What I want to know is:

1.   Where can I find actors’ salaries for each movie to which they appeared (ex: Michael Cera - $50,000 for Juno, $200 000 for Superbad, etc.)? If not the exact figures, how could I determine estimates?
2.   If I were to pursue acting as a career, do you believe my goal of having a few million dollars to my name in ten years is unpredictable, too far-fetched, unrealistic? Do you think that talent, determination, ambition, and work-ethic can significantly increase my odds of success?
3.   Finally, if I were to pursue acting as a career, how should I proceed? My initial choice would be to apply to university accredited acting schools in New York or LA, such as NYU or UCLA. That way if acting doesn’t work out, I at least have a bachelor’s degree and could pursue a Master’s Degree in something else. Or, do you think acting school is not that important, and it would be more beneficial for me to go to LA and just look for work? Or, do you think I’m far too inexperienced, both in work and training, to be even considering moving to LA?

I guess what I’m really trying to figure out is if someone really wants to make millions in this business, has the talent, and is willing to work his ass off to get it, does the probability for success increase significantly, or are there still too many uncontrollable factors, such as luck, to make a difference?

Thank You,
Jamie   

PS I know the message is long and there are many questions. Any guidance you give would help me a lot at this time in my life. I am really struggling to make a decision. I’ve sent this message out to several experts because I would obviously appreciate as much help I could get from as many experts as possible. Thanks again, and I look forward to hear your response.


ANSWER: Lots of problems you're trying to solve. Before I go into the paragraphs, I want you to step back and look at yourself.
Majoring in finance is a long hard row to hoe, and I wonder if you are actually jumping away from that, rather than toward acting as a career. Acting must seem like a dream compared with the complexities of
"standards and codes of good practice in economic policymaking, financial sector regulation and supervision, statistical collection and dissemination", as the IMF says.
You have had some experience, but a professional, relying on his acting income, might easily work as little in a year, and spend the rest of his time hustling to get that much work. It's a full-time job, looking for part-time work. If you did decide on acting, your years in school would be the time you did more pure acting than at any other in your career, perhaps.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am a twenty-two year-old university student majoring in finance in Montreal, QC, Canada. I am a beginner actor with little training or experience. In the last year and a half I have taken seven acting classes, been in three plays (two leads), and did voice over work for one film. I feel like I am at a crossroads in my life where I am considering going into acting as a career (specifically film & television), or alternatively, continuing taking a more conservative approach and staying in school.
Having a lot of money is very important to me. If money did not exist I would become a professional actor, but to be honest, I wouldn’t be satisfied if I didn’t have a few million dollars to my name ten years from now.
I have searched salary.com and the US department of labor and they have only confirmed what I already know – that the mean annual salary for an actor is low and that only a small percentage of actors are highly successful.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I can't judge how likely you are to make big bucks in finance, but I do know you won't do it as an actor
Canadian figures aren't kept as well but here is a quote from my previous answer about the US situation:
There are 120,000 SAG members. How many successful actors can you think of?
85% of SAG actors in the States make less than $5,000 a year.
Non-union actors are in the majority and they make much less.
Most LA actors get fewer than a dozen auditions for “paying” jobs a year, despite the fact that as many as 3,000 submissions are made for a one-line part.
After taxes and commissions, less than 50 percent of the fee goes to the actor.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What I want to know is:
1. Where can I find actors’ salaries for each movie to which they appeared (ex: Michael Cera - $50,000 for Juno, $200 000 for Superbad, etc.)? If not the exact figures, how could I determine estimates?
+++++++++++++++++
See above. Knowing star salaries is like finding the distance to the moon when you are estimating the height of a ceiling.
++++++++++++++++++
2. If I were to pursue acting as a career, do you believe my goal of having a few million dollars to my name in ten years is unpredictable, too far-fetched, unrealistic? Do you think that talent, determination, ambition, and work-ethic can significantly increase my odds of success?
++++++++++++++++++++++++
See above.
Talent, determination, ambition, and work-ethic are assumed. You also need yards of luck, a hunter's eye for what chances off, and the patience to work in a grunt job for many years while building your reputation and resume.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

3. Finally, if I were to pursue acting as a career, how should I proceed? My initial choice would be to apply to university accredited acting schools in New York or LA, such as NYU or UCLA. That way if acting doesn’t work out, I at least have a bachelor’s degree and could pursue a Master’s Degree in something else. Or, do you think acting school is not that important, and it would be more beneficial for me to go to LA and just look for work? Or, do you think I’m far too inexperienced, both in work and training, to be even considering moving to LA?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Do you plan to dump your current course? That represents a sacrifice. I'm not sure a BA in performance would be a hot start to an MA application.
The competition to get into Canadian drama courses is huge, and the known US courses much, much more so. If you were to look at an American actor's resume, you'd probably see at least one musical instrument, dance abilities, self-produced plays, languages, and singing training. That's the range that is demanded by US schools. If you did win your way in and get through to graduating, your visa would allow you to work in the States for two years, I think. Then you'd be back here with no useful credits except the course. No-one here would recognise the value of what bits of work you'd managed to land in the two years since school.
Bonnie Gillespie, who has a huge web presence, has advised US actors not to move to LA, where the competition is galactic, unless they have already got an agent and a resume showing range and quality, and have wrung every ounce of juice out of their local opportunities.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I guess what I’m really trying to figure out is if someone really wants to make millions in this business, has the talent, and is willing to work his ass off to get it, does the probability for success increase significantly, or are there still too many uncontrollable factors, such as luck, to make a difference?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They say that the chances of winning a big lottery prize are so low that they're the same whether you buy a ticket or not. The odds against any sort of success at all, however small, as an actor are similarly small.

Go back to the top of the answer and think about your motives in this research.
Your university will have counsellors who can help you to get past your current difficulties and sail on into a moderately wealthy future in a bank or a brokerage.
Much luck in the future

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hey Peter,

Thank you for the quick and detailed response but much of it got cut off on the right side of the right side of the screen. Can you try resending it, assuming the copy still exists.

Thanks,
Jamie

Answer
Here's a version with shorter lines.
If your browser is playing up, you should be able to reduce the screen font size or scroll left or right.
Try looking at the answers that are archived: if you search, you should find your original answer,
perhaps in better format
PM
Lots of problems you're trying to solve. Before I go into the paragraphs, I want you to step back and look at yourself.
Majoring in finance is a long hard row to hoe, and I wonder if you are actually jumping away from that,
rather than toward acting as a career. Acting must seem like a dream compared with the complexities of
"standards and codes of good practice in economic policymaking, financial sector regulation and supervision,
statistical collection and dissemination", as the IMF says.
You have had some experience, but a professional, relying on his acting income,
might easily work as little in a year as you did, and spend the rest of his time hustling to get that much work.
It's a full-time job, looking for part-time work.
If you did decide on acting, your years in school would be the time you did more pure acting than at any other in your career, perhaps.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am a twenty-two year-old university student majoring in finance in Montreal, QC, Canada. I am a beginner actor with little training or experience. In the last year and a half I have taken seven acting classes, been in three plays (two leads), and did voice over work for one film. I feel like I am at a crossroads in my life where I am considering going into acting as a career (specifically film & television), or alternatively, continuing taking a more conservative approach and staying in school.
Having a lot of money is very important to me. If money did not exist I would become a professional actor, but to be honest, I wouldn’t be satisfied if I didn’t have a few million dollars to my name ten years from now.
I have searched salary.com and the US department of labor and they have only confirmed what I already know – that the mean annual salary for an actor is low and that only a small percentage of actors are highly successful.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I can't judge how likely you are to make big bucks in finance, but I do know you won't do it as an actor
Canadian figures aren't kept as well but here is a quote from my previous answer about the US situation:
There are 120,000 SAG members. How many successful actors can you think of?
85% of SAG actors in the States make less than $5,000 a year.
Non-union actors are in the majority and they make much less.
Most LA actors get fewer than a dozen auditions for “paying” jobs a year,
despite the fact that as many as 3,000 submissions are made for a one-line part.
After taxes and commissions, less than 50 percent of the fee goes to the actor.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What I want to know is:
1. Where can I find actors’ salaries for each movie to which they appeared (ex: Michael Cera - $50,000 for Juno, $200 000 for Superbad, etc.)? If not the exact figures, how could I determine estimates?
+++++++++++++++++
See above.
Knowing star salaries is like finding the distance to the moon when you are estimating the height of a ceiling.
++++++++++++++++++
2. If I were to pursue acting as a career, do you believe my goal of having a few million dollars to my name in ten years
is unpredictable, too far-fetched, unrealistic?
Do you think that talent, determination, ambition, and work-ethic can significantly increase my odds of success?
++++++++++++++++++++++++
See above.
Talent, determination, ambition, and work-ethic are assumed.
You also need yards of luck, a hunter's eye for what chances off, and the patience to work in a grunt job
for many years while building your reputation and resume.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

3. Finally, if I were to pursue acting as a career, how should I proceed?
My initial choice would be to apply to university accredited acting schools in New York or LA,
such as NYU or UCLA. That way if acting doesn’t work out, I at least have a bachelor’s degree
and could pursue a Master’s Degree in something else.
Or, do you think acting school is not that important, and it would be more beneficial for me to go to LA
and just look for work?
Or, do you think I’m far too inexperienced, both in work and training, to be even considering moving to LA?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Do you plan to dump your current course? That represents a sacrifice.
I'm not sure a BA in performance would be a hot start to an MA application.
The competition to get into Canadian drama courses is huge, and the known US courses
much, much more so. If you were to look at an American actor's resume,
you'd probably see at least one musical instrument, dance abilities, self-produced plays,
languages, and singing training.
That's the range that is demanded by US schools.
If you did win your way in and get through to graduating,
your visa would allow you to work in the States for two years, I think.
Then you'd be back here with no useful credits except the course.
No-one here would recognise the value of what bits of work you'd managed to land in the two years since school.
Bonnie Gillespie, who has a huge web presence, has advised US actors not to move to LA,
where the competition is galactic, unless they have already got an agent and a resume showing range and quality,
and have wrung every ounce of juice out of their local opportunities.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I guess what I’m really trying to figure out is if someone really wants to make millions in this business,
has the talent, and is willing to work his ass off to get it, does the probability for success increase significantly,
or are there still too many uncontrollable factors, such as luck, to make a difference?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They say that the chances of winning a big lottery prize are so low that they're the same whether you buy a ticket or not.
The odds against any sort of success at all, however small, as an actor are similarly small.

Go back to the top of the answer and think about your motives in this research.
Your university will have counsellors who can help you to get past your current difficulties
and sail on into a moderately wealthy future in a bank or a brokerage.
Much luck in the future