Expert: D. Norkus - 1/28/2010

Question
I have read so many things about the maximum age to become a commercial pilot.  Some say there is no maximum, others say that the airlines really don't like you over 32 years of age.  I'm 33.  I have my AS degree only.  I would be starting from scratch.  I have a family with 2 kids.  They are supportive but only if my efforts not in vain.  Am I wasting my time or am I fine to start now?
If I'm fine to start now, do you have any suggestions with were to go for the fastest path and is my AS degree enough?  
I can get my BS in aviation with a professional pilot emphasis in 3 years at UVU in Utah for about 55k, but I hear about these other places doing it in like 150 days at institutes like ATP for 40k(without the BS degree of course).  What are the pros and cons here and how badly do I need that BS degree?
The biggest thing is I would like to not go through all of this and be jobless at the end of it all because I didn't do my research.
Finally, if I get all of my certifications, what is the best way to get my ATP or hours necessary.  I think I will need 1500 hours if congress passes the bill.  Wow! getting all of those hours would make me 40 before I'll be hire-able and broke!!!

Please shed some light : )  

Thanks,
Brian  

Answer
Brian

"I would be starting from scratch."

I take this to mean you have no flight experience at all, not even a student pilot certificate. Perhaps it would be in your best interest to get at least your Private Pilot certification and see how you like it before you commit tens of thousand of dollars of borrowed money on a career change you only think you will like. If you want to progress, then you keep going. If not, then you still have the ability to fly for fun.

Re: Age & Family Life

There are even people making a career change in their late 40's, so it can be done. No matter what your age, if you really want something, you are only going to end up older and still be wanting it if you don't pursue it. For some people happiness is more important than security or money. However, you must be realistic about what you can expect out of flying as a career if you do attain it. Many people dream about becoming a pilot, but the reality is often not what they expected. Case in point: That friend of mine left the airlines after 5 years, even though they were initially thrilled with getting paid to fly.

I made the jump in my early 30's, and if I did not have a substantial sum saved and no loan debt other then my house, I cannot imagine how I'd have gotten by. I know someone who had the money and did the PPL thru CFI at a flight school and 3 years later they were new hire F/O at age 46. Unfortunately, at age 50 my friend has left aviation because of the low wages (expected top out pay/retirement) at the regionals. Three years 'on the line' was enough to experience the career, and to find out that doing it for a living was not really living their dream - even though they thought and had proclaimed so in the beginning.

"I have a family with 2 kids.  They are supportive but only if my efforts not in vain.  Am I wasting my time or am I fine to start now?"

The sacrifices you and your family are going to have to make, financially & otherwise, cannot be underestimated. If you decide to 'go for it', do so with no illusions. I am glad they are supportive but I hope they actually understand what this will cost them as well. You can be away from home up to 17 days a month, you will likely be working the holidays for years and miss out on many family gatherings. You can expect to make less than $20K/yr for the first year pay, plus $2K or so each year after that depending on the carrier you get on with. Some carriers pay better than others. For example first year pay at Skywest is $18K but second jumps to $32K. Either way, you will have to suffer low wages for a bit, just how long depends on the carrier, they type aircraft assigned and how long it takes to upgrade. Upgrade, however, cannot be predicted with any accuracy. Upgrade all depends on pilot attrition, aircraft deliveries and airline expansion. Some carriers may have a 2-3 year upgrade now while others may have 7+ years.

Re: The Degree

1) With only an AS, you would probably be stuck at a regional airline. Most only require a 2 year, some just a H.S. diploma. The majors prefer a 4 year degree and many require it. Even if they didn't, you would want to have the bachelors to have a competitive resume for a major. However, depending on the person, a career with a regional may be just fine- especially if they have family. Some regional pilots have chosen quality of life over trying to go to a major, especially if that regional has them based in or near where they desire to live. Once they finally get into a regional captain position, are making $50-70K/yr with a good schedule and can hold holidays off, they are loathe to start all over again with another airline, get crummy schedules and miss all the holidays with family for several years.

2) You do not need an aviation degree to be a pilot. Many get one since that is their interest but it is not required. In fact, many caution against it since it is a useless degree outside of the field if you ever get furloughed and have to find a job outside aviation.


"The biggest thing is I would like to not go through all of this and be jobless at the end of it all because I didn't do my research..."

It doesn't matter how much research you put into it. The most thorough research might be small insurance but it won't protect you from the ying & yang of this business once your foot is in the door. The hiring forecast could be a boom and in a matter of years or months it could all go bust again leaving you on the receiving end of a furlough letter. This industry is terribly cyclical and ebbs and flow with the economy, airline mismanagement and a host of other factors. You simply can't research and plan your way to a secure start in this career. You just hope for the best, but plan for the worst. I was hired a decade ago into one of the biggest hiring waves seen in ages. Several pilot groups had just won record pay increases and growth for all carriers was on the horizon. Then 9/11 happened. The industry went into a tailspin, pilots got furloughed and the pay increases were lost and then some. I was furloughed for 2 years. Often it seems it all boils down to luck and timing. There are currently a few thousand pilots on furlough from United, American and Delta who do not know when they will get recalled. The regionals have several hundred out. American even has furloughs that have not been recalled yet and were furloughed after 9/11! They just announced up to 175 more for Feb 2010, some of whom were only recalled a year ago.

"I think I will need 1500 hours if congress passes the bill.  Wow! getting all of those hours would make me 40 before I'll be hire-able and broke!!!"

True, you will and if not broke, certainly in debt. Unless you have a way to fund your training without taking out loans.

"Finally, if I get all of my certifications, what is the best way to get my ATP or hours necessary."

Typically jobs like banner towing, skydive pilot, traffic watch and flight instruction are flight experience building jobs. Unfortunately, few pay enough to support even one person. (Old pilot joke: 'What is the difference between a large pizza and a flight instructor? A large pizza can feed a family of four.') For more on that question, see my link- http://www.pilotcareer.info

In addition, yours scenario is a popular question at the message forums on these message boards (Jetcareers even has a career changer forum):

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com
Start here -
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/flight-schools/4318-considering-career-airline...

http://www.jetcareers.com
http://forums.flightinfo.com

I know some of this seems like a real downer, and it certainly can be. The pilot career has taken quite a few layers of tarnish in the past few years. However, for the right person, when you buff it away it still shines just as beautifully and it's all worth it in the end. Check this out as a little sugar to all the sour I had to lay out first. It is a video clip of a roundtrip from Boston to Paris, from start to finish, condensed down to 5 minutes created by AA pilot & Gadling blogger Kent Wien-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAbAh_2lZDw

Let me know if you need anything else.
Dottie

Here is Kents blog too- www.gadling.com/bloggers/kent-wien