Expert: D. Norkus - 4/26/2004

Question
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Followup To
Question -
My situation is, I am 30 years old, and I really want to make a change.  I've always wanted to be a pilot, and I feel it is the perfect career choice for me.  Unfortunately I still have a good 3 years left to finish my bachelor degree, and I have a whopping 1 hour of flight time under my belt.  What I do have though is the desire to make it work, even though I know it won't be easy.  I live in Flagstaff, AZ, not far from ERAU Prescott.  This would be my first choice for school, however I know it's extremely expensive.  My two other options are:

1) I can attend ASU's "Aeronautical Management Technology" program, which will get me the degree and flight training.  (They also have a "bridge program" with Mesa Airlines...a large regional carrier, which they highly promote because of the added chances it gives you to get on with them)     

or

2) I have been looking into Utah Valley State College, who offers an online degree in aviation.  I can attend any number of flight schools, most likely in the Phoenix area and complete the online degree in the same time.

   I like the benefit of ASU's bridge program...I think it may give me an advantage, but on the other hand, I can probably get my CFI faster going the other route, which will allow me to build my hours faster and also earn an income (albeit a very small income) during the process.  I just learned that ERAU has an online offering also, so I will look into it more.

   Anyway, given my age and situation, would you be so kind as to offer your advice?  Please feel free to tell me if you think I have too far to go to make this career field work, but if not, what route do you think I should go to get the best quality education in the shortest amount of time?

   Sorry for the long email, please know any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated!!

Regards,
Scott
Answer -
Scott

You say, "I've always wanted to be a pilot, and I feel it is the perfect career choice for me".

If you truly want to make a career change, then it is certainly possible to do it. No matter what your age, if you really want something, you are only going to end up older and still be wanting it if you don't pursue it. As George Eliot said,

"It is never to late to be what you might have been."

However, you must be realistic about what you can expect out of flying as a career if you do attain it! Many people dream about becoming an airline pilot, but the reality is often not what they expect. The career is wonderful, but it is also very romanticized! Having so little flight experience, every flight is an adventure for you. Once you are doing 6 legs a day as a job, it is not quite the same experience as it is for someone just having come off their first intro flight. I do suggest getting through your PPL to solidify your decision before sinking large sums of money into any training program.

As far as training and age, 30 is still relatively young. Obviously, I am not privy to your financial situation, but I always suggest the most affordable route unless time is of the essence (and it's not like you are 45!). Seeing as new hires make so little money, I feel it is best to incur the least amount of debt possible while also taking the training program with the best opportunities for you depending on your family situation and existing debt. As a First Officer on first year pay, I take home $1200-1600 per/month and I can tell you that ain't much to live on! Having all other bills paid off and a supportive spouse/family (especially financially) sure helps.

A program like Mesa Pilot Development (www.flightcareers.com) or another 'academy' may be the best for you if you are unencumbered and can afford it. The Mesa program is stand alone and you can attend for flight only (ASU aside). It is costly though. Otherwise the local flight school route may be better for you if the training is affordable and you can get a CFI job out of it. Earning an income at the same time is always a plus too.

Base your choice on your level of comfort with the amount of debt it will require and how well the program meets your goals/needs. The Utah Valley program sounds as if it may be a great thing if you can do your ratings in a year or two and do an online Associates. I agree, the route where you can start building time the fastest would be the best. You just have to decide which that will be for you. To help you decide, I think you need to read up on the subject to make an informed decision. This is a lot of money to invest in your future. Reading over these pages should help:

Check out my page about training & pilot careers. The links at bottom are excellent reading for additional info about the 'big picture' of what changing careers would entail:

www.geocities.com/av8trxx99/FAQ.html

In addition, a pilot career change is a popular question at the message forums on these boards:

www.jetcareers.com (has a career change forum) and
http://forums.flightinfo.com

Go there and read the replies to the career change threads. All forums are searchable by keyword. There are many personal stories, school specific recommendations or bad reviews at these sites too. Especially jetcareers.com, where they have flight school & university specific message fourms.

To get hired at the regionals, you will need at least a 2 year degree, but they prefer a 4 year. It shouldn't be that hard to get the extra year for an associates. The 4 year is another thing. All the major and national carriers require it. If you were to get hired at a regional with a 2 year, then you could get your bachelors while working at the regional and not worry about finishing the 4 year so fast. Applicants with 4 year degrees are favored, but it's not impossible to get hired with only a 2 year. (I still have 5 classes to get for my bachelors.) Also, it is not necessary to major in aviation. Airlines don't care if you have a 4 year in basket weaving as long as you have a bachelors degree (it shows critical thinking skill & study ability). In fact, many suggest NOT to major in aviation as it gives a pilot something to fall back on if case they get furloughed during their career. As far as getting the "best quality education in the shortest amount of time", take the subject that interests you. Check the box by getting the associates first. Over the course of the next 18 months you could finish the associates degree and have your PPL, Instrument, Commercial and CFI if you really applied yourself. This would be a great start. While building time you could also continue with your 4 year, or try and get on with a regional having the associates. There are also mumerous posts about aviation degrees and the benefits/drawbacks at the forums above.

Good Luck

Dottie


Hello Dottie,

    First off let me thank you for your very prompt and highly informative response!  It is so encouraging that people like yourself are eager to help.  This is not an easy decision by any means, so I appreciate the help.
    Am I correct in guessing you work for a regional airline?  I guess that is the standard first commuter job that pilots take, on their way to the majors.  I just wonder, is it as bad as many claim it is?  I know the pay is low and the schedule probably not the best, but I was kind of shocked at how negative most of the postings were that I read on Flight info.com.  I know there are always nay sayers in any profession, but the percentage was pretty high.  I don't want to let that influence me too much, because I'm sure there are plenty of people that love it.
    My desire has been to get into corporate aviation, but recently I've been looking into the commercial area quite a bit.  What is your view on corporate vs. commercial?  Just like landing a job with "the majors," I'm sure that piloting a Lear or a Gulfstream someday is quite an endeavor...but it was my first dream...aside from flying jets for the military, which my eyesight took me out of the running for. :(  From what I've read, the schedules are not regular, which is I guess a disadvantage.  If you are fortunate enough to secure a good corporate job, can you expect comparable salaries to that of Airline captains?
    I see you went to ERAU...was it in Prescott?  How do you feel about it...is it worth the high price tag?  Living in a place like Prescott, Phoenix, San Diego, etc. is surely an advantage weather wise, as you can fly more often, but do you think it is wiser to train in an area where you have more inclimate weather, in order to be more versatile and skilled in instrment flying?  I have the opportunity to move to Denver, but I am somewhat hesitant to leave such a fair weather place, being that I don't have any time to waste.
    Lastly, I see you offer advice on scholarships.  I am not independently wealthy, in fact I will need to rely heavily on financial aid of some sort (most likely loans) for training and school.  I wonder if you know of some good resources for aid, scholarships or loans, that you can recommend?  I know I'm not "old" but I am definitely not a "typical" student...are there any scholarships out there that benefit "non-typical" students?

    I hope I am not overstepping my bounds by asking so many questions of you...I know you have a life to live outside of flying and assisting hopeful pilots!  Thanks again for all your help.

Scott


Answer
>>>Am I correct in guessing you work for a regional airline?
Why yes I do!

>>>I guess that is the standard first commuter job that pilots take, on their way to the majors. I just wonder, is it as bad as many claim it is?
It can be, but most of us are just happy to be here and we knew what to expect. Some days are utterly cool and the overnights are fantastic (mine are all in CA), while others are so tiring you can't believe that it's legal to get flown that much. I have had both. Do I love it? Yes. Am I willing to suffer till I get seniority and a job at a major? I am.

>>>I know the pay is low and the schedule probably not the best, but I was kind of shocked at how negative most of the postings were that I read on Flight info.com.
1)Pilots ALWAYS complain. 2)The grass is always greener at somebody elses airline. You are right to take the negativity with a grain of salt. After all, the worst day flying beats a day in an office cubicle. (OK, 95% of days spent flying. Those 14 hr duty days really DO suck!)

>>>What is your view on corporate vs. commercial? Just like landing a job with "the majors,"...from what I've read, the schedules are not regular, which is I guess a disadvantage. If you are fortunate enough to secure a good corporate job, can you expect comparable salaries to that of Airline captains?

Depending on the company, getting a corporate job could be like winning the lottery. Great money, good schedules and awesome equipment. The guys I met flying a Gulfstream for Cox Cable are based in Hawaii and fly less than 50 hours a month and still make well over $50K. Some corporate flying and pay can also make the worst day at a regional look wonderful too. This is one sector of aviation where 'who you know' really helps in landing a job and the positions & pay vary greatly by the corporation. Private or fractional bizjet companies like Flight Options or ExecJet are the tops and pay very well, some pilots are better paid than at a few airlines.

I have no corporate experience, but suggest further reading at jetcareers.com or even flightinfo.com for more on what it's really like. I do know the competaive resumes are very experienced, with many being furloughed United, American or other major airline guys. Spending half my life in the airline business (starting over in regional flying at age 32) I can only say that this is the life I know and love- the airlines. Corporate may be great for some, but I am too spoiled having 'flown for free' since I was 20 years old to leave this business. It's a part of me.

>>>I see you went to ERAU...was it in Prescott? How do you feel about it...is it worth the high price tag?
I went to the ERAU CCE program on a Navy base in San Diego. I thought it was a much better value. Classes were about $500 ea and I got credits for my Associates degree. Plus, I got to keep my day job in the process. I did strictly academics there, getting flight & rating credits (which I had done at a local flying club) and minoring in NTSB/aviation saftey (in case I ever lost my medical- I'd be an NTSB investigator).

>>>Lastly, I see you offer advice on scholarships...are there any scholarships out there that benefit "non-typical" students?
When I was flight training I applied to the scholarships offered by the "Ninety Nines" for Women pilots. Over the years took my list of available awards, expanded it with all awards I have ever heard of and put it into a database I now keep on the web. Most of the awards are for women only, but I have a page that have some that are open to men too. *Scholarships given to those in a 4 year program are not part of my list, and there are many, but info on them can be had via the University Aviation Association*. For the list and links, see this site:

www.geocities.com/av8trxx99/page2.html

Good luck getting that PPL. The Instrument will be your biggest test, as most airline flyng is instrument. Even while in visual conditions, there have been times I barely was able to look around outside to appreciate the view as I am so busy inside! I hope you find a way to acheive your goals. Down the road let me know what you decide upon and if it was good choice.

:O)
Dot