Expert: Carlo Segre - 6/5/2011

Question
QUESTION: Hi Carlo,

The site wouldn't allow more follow ups, so had to post a new ques.

Anyway,

[Q]
In looking back at your previous questions, I noted that you are in your second year.  Is it possible to sit in on physics classes and get some letters of reference from the professors there to show your competence in the undergraduate physics material even though you have an engineering degree?  This would probably be a plus in your applications.

[/Q]

My Institute offers the typical first year basic physics courses, i.e. Physics 1(semester 1) and Physics 2(semester 2).

I am done with both of these. Apart from this, the department of physics offers some material science electives in the last year for maybe a couple of semesters or a single sem. I'm not too sure.

But that's just about it. I am not in a full fledged university but instead in an "Institute of Information Technology", so we don't have a physics programme.

As for reccomendations, can't say anything, but would be able to get 2-3 reccomendations most probably.

I'm planning on getting involved with the faculty in this year itself, for some research experience, if possible.

The closest thing to theoretical physics we have is Quantum information and computing. There's also one professor who is involved in mathematical physics. Apart from that, we have prof.s in atomic and molecular collision physics, biophysics, nanotechnology etc.

But if I am not able to get more than one recommendation, would that be a serious problem?

Thanks.

ANSWER: Hello metalrose:

Any university will likely require you to take some upper division mechanics , E&M and Quantum courses before taking the graduate physics curriculum.  Self-study will certainly help you do well on these but you will just have to take them.  Some of these courses will be able to count toward your graduate degree (we do permit that at Illinois Tech).

Getting into a Ph.D program requires usually 3 letters of reference.  An M.S. program may require fewer than that.  The letters can be from faculty in your area of study and don't have to be from physics faculty.  However, if you get involved in a research project at your university, that would be an excellent letter of reference for you.  If one of your letters is from a physicist who can speak to your ability in the field, that will be immensely valuable.

Cheers,

Carlo

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Carlo,

I think I got answers to most of the questions bothering me.
I'd like to ask just one more thing, even though such a question would be better answered on forums.

To get into top schools, or even the second tier schools, what is the kind of profile that I'd require as an international student with an engg. degree?

On many forums, I have found that students coming from Ivy leaugue colleges, with an above 3/3.2 gpa, and research experience, don't make it to the top 5 or even 10 schools.

I have seen many examples of this especially on physicsgre.com.

Are the benchmarks any different for international students coming from no-name international schools?

I ask this, because I know of a couple of seniors who graduated from my university in the fields of engg. and were able to make it to the Ph.D. programmes at Caltech.

Thanks.

Answer
Hi metalrose:

This is really a difficult question to answer.  I can only tell you what my experience has been with U.S. students and top 10 programs and then take a wild guess at how these schools see international applicants.

The very top programs will only admit U.S. students with perfect or nearly perfect GPAs, a significant amount of research experience (including published papers), and outstanding Physics GRE scores (above 75 percentile).  The quantitative score on the General GRE needs to be nearly perfect too but they don't expect the Verbal portion to be at the same level.

For international applicants, it is quite common to see outstanding Physics and Quantitative GRE scores.  It is less common to see publications and truly outstanding grades that are easily interpreted.  What I mean by this is that while universities in the U.S. understand the typical GPA and mentally place the rigor of the university so as to judge the relative merits of the applicants, it is sometimes hard to gauge the grading scale in universities in India, China or other countries.  Are grades given harshly or does a 76% really mean what it would in the U.S. for example?  It is also difficult to compare letters of reference from faculty in U.S. institutions with international ones.

All of this means that the Physics GRE scores are the best common yardstick for comparison along with any publications that the student might have.

There is an additional constraint and that is that many of the first year positions for graduate students in physics are Teaching Assistantships.  This means that the selected student needs to be able to communicate fluently in English.  Unfortunately, this does bias the system toward U.S. applicants who are familiar with the system and should be completely comfortable with expressing themselves in English.  Indian students might have an advantage in this regard compared to applicants form other countries.

That being said, I am pretty sure that all U.S. universities have more open positions for first year students than they have domestic applicants who meet their standards for admission, the bulk of applications in physics are international.  

So, to summarize, the Physics GRE is important and the letters of reference are also.  The rule of thumb that I use is that there are excellent students at all universities, not just the top ones in a country.

Good luck!

Carlo