Expert: Carlo Segre - 7/18/2011

Question
QUESTION: Hi Carlo,

I was wondering which of the two options, MS or Ph.D. in Physics, would be a better choice from a non-academia employment point of view?

I know that many universities in the US do not offer standalone MS degrees and only consider applicants for Ph.D's.

What if I apply for a Ph.D. and decide to quit after the first two years of my graduate studies? Will a typical US university grant me an MS degree on my quitting?

Can anyone quit at any time (after first two years) with an M.S. degree?

Also, from the point of view of academic content, is the M.S. sufficient? Isn't the Ph.D. basically training in research work involving little new knowledge about the subject?

Thanks.

ANSWER: Hi metalrose:

The answer to your first question depends on what you want to do in an industrial environment.  The Ph.D. is valuable if you want to work as a group leader or independent researcher in an R&D setting.  With an M.S. the positions start a bit lower but you can definitely move up with experience in an R&D setting.  However, for more development and design, the M.S. is more than sufficient.  It all depends on where you want to start and what kind of environment you want to work in.

You are correct, many U.S. universities will only take students into a graduate program for a Ph.D.  This is not always the case, and there is a new class of degrees called Professional Science Masters which are specifically terminal degrees designed for careers in industry.  See the links below:

http://www.sciencemasters.com/  or  http://www.npsma.org/

There are also universities, such as my own, which accept students into a M.S. program and this degree usually consists of the same courses as a Ph.D. student would take in the core but slightly different electives.  Students can obtain this degree with or without thesis usually and it takes about 3 or 4 semesters.  There are other schools which only have a M.S. program and usually require a thesis to complete the degree.

If you enter a Ph.D. program and decide not to finish it, you usually can get a M.S. as long as you are in good standing academically and have passed any comprehensive exam which is required for the M.S.  Of course you can stop at any time, if you decide that the 5-6 years of work toward the Ph.D. is not for you.  At Illinois Tech, we have a common exam for Ph.D. and M.S. students and two different pass levels so that a student who passes at the Ph.D. level has also passed the M.S. exam.

The big thing is financial aid.  Most universities with a Ph.D. program and an M.S program (that is, research universities), will offer Teaching and Research Assistantships to Ph.D. students but not M.S. students.  Sometimes, there are scholarship offers, however to reduce the tuition costs.  Schools with only an M.S. (less research oriented, clearly), will offer Teaching Assistantships for M.S. students.  It is pretty much bad form to apply for a Ph.D. program if your real intent is to only stop at the M.S. and universities look for clues which tell them this in making admission decisions.

The premise of your last question is a bit off base.  Yes the basic coursework for the M.S. and Ph.D. is about the same but the training that a student obtains in doing a Ph.D. is far superior as far as understanding how to conduct research is concerned.  This is really the benefit of the Ph.D., you become the world's expert on the topic of your dissertation and the training ensures an employer that you have the skills to conceive, plan and carry out a research program on your own.  Of course with experience an M.S. holder can do the same thing but that is what the Ph.D. says, that you have that specific experience!  Of course, there are additional advanced courses one takes in a Ph.D. but the major part of the learning is done by interacting with the advisor and other scientists and learning on one's own.

Cheers,

Carlo


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Carlo,

Thanks a lot for the reply.

[Q]
The big thing is financial aid.  Most universities with a Ph.D. program and an M.S program (that is, research universities), will offer Teaching and Research Assistantships to Ph.D. students but not M.S. students.  Sometimes, there are scholarship offers, however to reduce the tuition costs.  Schools with only an M.S. (less research oriented, clearly), will offer Teaching Assistantships for M.S. students.  It is pretty much bad form to apply for a Ph.D. program if your real intent is to only stop at the M.S. and universities look for clues which tell them this in making admission decisions.

[/Q]
Just to clarify, what you're saying is that universities that offer both Ph.D. and standalone M.S. degrees will fund Ph.D. students and not M.S. students whereas universities that offer only a standalone M.S. will fund their M.S. students, right?

Also, you talk about clues that universities may look for to dicover the intent. How do they do this exactly?
Is it through the SOP's?

Also, if you may allow me to ask something slightly off topic here, would getting an M.S. in an Engg. field be a better choice than a physics Ph.D. from the point of view of getting industrial jobs in technical areas or maybe even management related areas?

I am currently an engg. undergrad. and not a science undergrad.
My B.Tech. would be in Electronics and Communication Engg.

Would my B.S. play any role in my employment options later on, regardless wether I go the Physics or engg. route?
Will it make me more attractive for engg. related jobs later on?

I ask this because here in India, companies are primarily interested in fresh engg. graduates and employ students through campus recruitments. If you reject campus jobs, your employment options after that are incredibly reduced.
But if you do take campus jobs, you can climb up the ladder, get work exp. and become much more attractive for other companies and positions.

Thanks

Answer
Hi metalrose:

Yes, generally, universities with Ph.D. programs will prefer to spend resources such as Teaching and Research Assistantships on students in the Ph.D. program.  however, there may be some scholarships if the university is interested in having M.S. students (some aren't).

The Statement of Purpose is read carefully to determine the students' intentions.

The combination of engineering and physics degrees is a good one as the physics gives a bit more fundamental understanding of nature.  I would think that having this combination would be more valuable in an R&D setting.  The B.S. does play a role in finding a job even after a M.S. is completed.  The question of whether to continue with an M.S. in Engineering is really a personal one.  having an M.S. generally offers better salary and employment opportunities in the U.S.  I cannot speak for India, of course.

Cheers,

Carlo