Expert: Chris Wagoner - 3/30/2008

Question
QUESTION: in a probable cause statement it states write narrative in 1st person,  i.e. i was told by..it also usually is signed by the first officer on scene where they would normally write a preliminary report then give it over to a sergeant etc. this probable cause statement is not signed at all and is written as, he said, she said..does this mean anything. what is the procedure.

ANSWER: Hi Susan,

I need more information. What probable cause statement for what kind of crime? And is this one that someone was arrested on?

If the statement is not signed its not valid. A probable cause affidavit is just that a sworn statement. It has to be signed. And in it the officer is supposed to just right what they based the arrest on and the elements of the crime it is written for.

Without more information its hard to say what it is your asking.

If you need more please post a follow up with more information. Thanks

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: ty for ur time, since i last got a response from you i have been trying to no avail to figure this out as i'm afraid an innocent party may be charged with a crime they didn't commit. the p.c statement we have is similar or what we thought was to be the p.report. there was an arrest done aprox. 18 hrs later. the statement reads as 'on dec.. sheriff's office received a complaint of a robbery that occured at..it goes on to say that the deputy first on scene gathered info. to complete a prelim. report an determined elements of a robbery notifying supervisor. nothing on any of the pages of the report was signed by any officer/judge, just a typed name of the sergeant. it wasn't written like a normal report should like "i came onto the scene"..etc. it was all, this officer said this and that officer said this..i also don't understand why there wasn't a signature or report from the on scene officer, what was told to us was that they 'didn't have a 'form'..also, the p.report  lists that there were several 'masked men', the suspect held a gun to her head demanding her purse'..the passenger was then 'heard' talking to someone named '??'..who was not masked and just like the p.report said was not armed, there were two vehicles involved, nothing was taken, 'they suddenly got away'..what i don't understand is that they did not conduct a search of any of the 'masked suspects', nor did they conduct a search for a weapon, nor was one found. the arrested the man that was seen talking to the passenger, they had known each other. because of the person i'm asking about is currently in custody for this, has had dealings with the law before, in the report, it states that an officer 'not on scene', gave information to the officer there describing who he thought was to be the person they were looking for. by his suggestion they pulled up a photo in the car and had one of the victims id him, as ??? they were unsure of the last name, and was pretty sure that was the guy 'talking' to one of the 'victims' but couldn't be sure as of the lighting and that he hadn't seen him in a couple years. the report is solely based on one person, no one mentions anything about the gunman. the report reads like a 'story'..even the sergeant who's name was typed on the bottom..his comments read 'sergeant ??met with..so i'm not sure what this all means, if it bares any relevence, how they can charge with 'armed' when no weapon or search was conducted when the person they have in jail did not possess a gun/weapon and was stated so in the report. i hope i didn't confuse you to much, but he's running out of time. doesn't all officer's involved have to sign, or have some type of report? i appreciate ur time and patience with me.  i know as a mom of 3, i would of wanted the gunman found/ or at least looked for.

ANSWER: Hi Susan,

I am sorry but your follow-up is very confusing. I think I gathered that your questioning the validity of the report you have? Many police departments have gone to electronic reporting where the officers type, or call in and its transcribed. They do not have to sign the Reports themselves, but I think you would be better of asking for the "probable cause affidavit". That is the charging document, not the report that you have. You may get a better idea of what the person is charged with and why from that. Again, go to the jail or holding facility they are in and ask for a copy of the "probable cause affidavit" or "charging document" not the police report.

Also I am guessing you already have an attorney for this person, if not you should get one immediately, if they can not afford one they will be appointed a public defender. When you say time is running out, what time?

You need to get with the attorney that is defending this person and ask them these questions. Without me being part of the case and having all the reports, probable cause affidavit and other documents and such before me, I am really working in the blind here.

Good luck, and remember that the system really does work, and even innocent people sometimes get arrested, but it all washes out in the end. Get wit the attorney and ask them the same questions you asked me, they are better suited to answer you than I am without knowing all the facts of the case.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: sorry to bother you again. i have another question, apparently in my state you don't get, or they don't have to give you any paperwork whatsoever, i found out through my dad who's a retired detective from the organized crime unit, that there's a 'felony' packet that includes everything. and only the s.a.o and the pd see it..i don't get to talk to my dad much so it's easier to ask you.  other than the 'statement' which wasn't signed. i did collect some discovery information which i found something odd. i put in a motion to dismiss due to  not signing, not under oath etc. when we got the discovery papers, in it was the 'affadavit' with the signatures on the bottoms like they should be, the exact..photocopied one did not have signatures..it was like they signed it afterwards. if that's the case, can they do that?

Answer
Hi Susan,

They have to sign it before its submitted to the court, thats all.

As for not giving you paperwork, you have a right to a copy of ALL the paperwork. I gather you are representing the accused and therefore should submit a request for the reports and such through the court. If they refuse you, you have grounds for a appeal on the basis they did not allow you to prepare a proper defense. Every one has the right to confront their accuser (that in the Constitution) and as part of that the Supreme Court has held that includes your accusers reports and paperwork they are going to use against you in court.

Hope this helps. It crazy they will not give you copies. Have you officially requested them? And if so and they refuse, go to the court and ask for a court order forcing them to release the information.