Expert: Jack Toomey - 7/17/2010

Question
QUESTION: Hi Jack, I've read through all of your answers to authors, and I appreciate your candor and thoughtfullness.  I saw no answers that would help me with my question, so I'll try to paint an accurate picture for you.

I am an author, and one point in my story contains a homicide.  One person is shot to death in front of multiple witnesses, in a public park (near a lake) but somewhat removed from the main roads, so its not crawling with a lot of gawkers.

The woman lives for only a few moments after being shot, and dies cradled in the lap of her fiancee.

I know that all departments treat situations differently; that there is no certain playbook.  I don't expect a specific answer...I just want to know if this is in the realm of believability.

When first responders arrive, I understand that they're main role would be to secure the core scene, detain suspect(s) if on scene, make sure a crime is not still in progress, identify potential witnesses, and try to get a general idea of what happened.

Is there any amount of sympathy that would cause the first officer on scene to allow the fiancee to continue to hold his recently deceased lady for a few more moments (to say goodbye as it were) until more officers and crime scene staff arrived?

Technically, he wouldn't disturb the scene, because he became a part of it when she died, right?  Is this at all in the realm of possibility?  I'm trying to go for a gut wrenching emotional thing here for the reader.  It's a main character that was killed, and at this stage in the story the reader should have formed a strong attachment to her.

If necessary to help you answer, this takes place in the outskirts of a small town, population maybe 5 to 7 thousand.  Nearest major metro is 35 miles north.

Your thoughts?  (And thanks in advance for your time).

ANSWER: Jim,

The problem with allowing the fiance to hold the deceased person is that he is now transferring more evidence and DNA from his clothing, body, etc, from him to her.  

Unless this woman had her head blown off by a shotgun blast and was obviously dead I can't see the fire department allowing anyone near the victim because they would be hurriedly getting her ready for a trip to the hospital.  Very few murder victims that have JUST been shot are pronounced dead on the scene.  The ambulance crew would  not allow your scenario to happen and certainly not the police.

The way I see it the only way that you can work this in is if all of this happened while the fire department was there and before the arrival of the police.  In rural areas the fire department usually gets there before the police.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Jack, again I appreciate your quick response and candid answers.  Here's something I failed to ask last time around:  Given the previous scenario (a woman is fatally shot outdoors and dies in the arms of her fiancee - he's not the shooter...the shooter is another female that openly confesses at the scene) what might be a believable set of steps that would be followed to process the physical evidence contained on his person?  Although he's clearly not the suspect (at least, I know he's not, and so would the reader), he'd be covered with her blood and other physical evidence because she died in his arms.

Would samples or clothing be taken from him?  Who does this?  EMT's assisting police?  Would this be done at the scene?  If his clothing is taken, is he provided a blanket or alternate clothing?  

Again, this is a small town, which leads me to believe crime scene personnel wouldn't arrive very fast, so what would happen to this man during the interim?  Would he be held at the scene until crime scene staff arrived to process blood and other evidence on his person or taken somewhere else?

Thank you again, very much, for the experience you so graciously provide.  It's truly appreciated.

By the way, I have a couple of questions to ask regarding general steps taken by firefighters when responding to a house fire.  Are you able to answer some basic questions in that area as well?

ANSWER: If the shooter confesses at the scene who does she confess to?  Wouldn't that make this guy a witness also?  So that would be two strikes against her.  Where is the gun?

If its a small town I presume it has its own small police department.  If its very small there could be only one officer on duty and he probably has never seen anything like this before.  Its probable that this small town department has a memorandum of understand with the county or state police that would call for the larger department to step in and handle the case.  But then again the small town might not even have a police department so the county police would handle it anyway.  If that is the case then the larger department would have more expertise in handling a scene like this.

Either way he would be removed from the scene as soon as possible and separated from anyone who might influence what he says.  He would be taken to the nearest police station and interviewed by a detective.  His clothing would be taken from him and a jumpsuit of some kind would be provided for him until someone could bring him clothing from his house if he lives nearby.  No EMT would take part in any crime scene work or undressing this guy.  His clothing would be bagged and kept for the crime scene lab or whoever would pick it up.

These days even if there are five witnesses who saw the shooting the police have to work just as hard to be able to prove that the man did not do the shooting as they have to work to prove that the woman did do the shooting.  So that would mean taking his head hair, fingernail scrapings, blood, and clothing.  This is to prevent being second guessed in court.

Getting back to the small town thing.  Just because its a small town that doesn't mean that there are no police or crime scene people nearby.  I live in a small town of 3000 people but its located in a county of almost one million people.  So if there was a serious crime the police would be here in no time and the crime scene people wouldn't be that far off.  Now your small town could be in the middle of Montana so if that's the case then it might take a long time.

I am fairly familiar with what fire fighters do but if I don't know the answer I can get in touch with a retired fire fighter who I know.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Jack, you are really a great source of information.  Thank you.  I've answered the questions you raised in your last response in case it prompts any further details:

1. If the shooter confesses at the scene who does she confess to? The shooter is a female that knows the victim.  As far as the reader knows, they are at least friendly acquaintences, but the motive appears to be jealousy - I have yet to fully define that aspect.  After the shooting she would be overcome with grief at having actually done it, and she would freely confess at first to a responding firefighter, and then to the subsequent police officers that arrive.  Hopefully this gives you much more to work with.

2. Wouldn't that make this guy a witness also?  Yes, her confession (to the firefighters) was in the immediate vacinity of this guy's hearing, and two other male witnesses (see next point below for more on those two).

3. Where is the gun?  A couple of male friends that were hanging out with the now deceased woman and her fiancee were able to get it away from the shooter and it is in plain view on the ground (glock 9 mm) safety is on, with the clip removed and the chambered round removed as well. One of the two men who disarmed the shooter has the clip and extra round in his pocket.  Probably not good for keeping the evidence untainted, but he pocketed it to maintain safety.  I'm assuming I should have this witness immediately surrender the clip and extra round to the first responders on the scene.
4. The town:  It's a real city (Okmulgee), and it lies about 35 miles south of Tulsa, OK.

The fire questions:  

1.When firefighters are called to a house blaze in the evening, and all occupants have safely gotten out, will the firemen take the word of those occupants or attempt to verify that themselves?  Assume the house is really cooking at this point.

2. Once the fire is out, what, if any, further oblgations/interractions does the fire department have to the homeowner?  I'm assuming the immediate area will be taped off and the homeowner will not be allowed to reenter the premises until authorized by...who?

3. What role, if any, would a police officer play at the scene of a house fire?  I understand all departments are autonomous and have their own procedures, but is there a general rule of thumb that says the police would observe or be involved?  It's not an arson, and without going into detail I can say that the responding officials would learn this in short order.

Can't think of anything else right now, so I'll say a hearty thank-you again.  I had no idea there were guys like you out there that offered their experience like this, and you've saved me a lot of time and research.

Much appreciated.

Answer
Ok just curious about those things.  That makes for quite a few witnesses.

1.  if the fire department gets to a house fire and finds people outside they ask if everyone is out and if someone says "yes" they make them count and name the people if its a large household.  If its just a couple then no.

2.  the fire department does what is called "overhaul" where they throw out the windows anything that could reignite such as mattresses, couches, etc.   I don't mean in a small fire where there is just smoke damage.  I mean where the entire house was on fire.  A fire marshal or fire investigator would be dispatched as a matter of course and if there is any suspicion of arson he would start an investigation once the house cooled off.  But he has to find out the cause and origin anyway so the yes the house would be roped off.

3.  some jurisdictions have what is called "fire police" which are usually wannabe police officers who are either young or elderly and they direct traffic and do crowd control at the scene of a fire.  I think that they have limited police powers at the scene of a fire.  That happens in rural areas.  In civilization the real police are needed to block streets, do crowd control, and even assist the fire investigator if needed.