Expert: Griff Ruby - 3/2/2008

Question
Dear Griff,

                   I have a couple of questions to ask you. How come in Tradition the Latin rite Catholics wear a veil just like Islamists demand women to wear the veil?

Let me start by saying that I do support and like when women wear veils, I am a woman too. St. Paul the apostle is not advocating the shaving of a woman's head for refusing to wear the chapel veil, but rather, he is trying to convey the seriousness of the veil itself!

I've blogged a few times before about the subject of head coverings and whether women are still required to wear them under current canon or liturgical law? The reason that this keeps coming up is that there are people out there who are spreading the erroneous idea that it is still mandatory for women to do this!

It bugs me Griff, Some are even sellers of chapel veils who are self-interestedly misrepresenting the law.Now, don't get me wrong.

I like the custom of women wearing headcoverings in the liturgy personly me being a Latina-Caribbean woman I strive for other women to wear it as well. But I'm adamantly opposed to misrepresenting the law and people fostering scruples or "more Catholic than thou" attitudes or laying a greater burden on people than the Church does.

When I've blogged about this subject, I've been confronted with counter-arguments that, to put it delicately, have no canonical validity, and I've refrained from responding in some cases.

One irony of the sitution is that many women feel disinclined to wear a veil on personal initiative precisely because of the (possibly deliberate) confusion about its necessity and even its praiseworthiness.

Holy women don't want people to look at them and think: is she trying to make a scene? Does she think she's better than me? and so on.

Culturally, we've dropped the ball on this just as with weekly Friday abstinence. While neither practice is canonically mandated, both are praiseworthy.

Unfortunately, the faithful have scarcely been exhorted to regular abstinence and even less so to veiling.

Rosetta a friend and I have talked quite a bit about veiling. An its importants to follow the bible directly.

Another Catholic friend of mine has pointed out to me that there is this misconception that women only wore veils.

They wore hats mostly just like Baptist! Maybe those of Spanish or Latino-Latina descent wore veils, but most women wore hats. Now think about what your reaction would be to a woman who came to Church wearing a hat? Would you think she was making a scene? Would you think she thought she was better than you? Would you think she was a Protestant who came to a Catholic church? Or would you think she was a lady who just liked hats? This is my point...you wouldn't know!

I tried to wear a veil for a while, but it did become a distraction to others and while I saw it as a sign of reverence for Our Lord, I did know some woman for whom it was a source of pride. So meanwhile I know that I am being pleasing to the Lord Jesus'I just feel like some people think that isnt nessasery.

It can, not only foster scruples or "more Catholic than thou" attitudes and lay a greater burden on people than the Church does but also contribute to the sin of pride in the heart of the veiled woman.

I've heard one lady's conversion story where the veil played a role in her coming into the church. Most people say "I think chapel veils look pretty on girls and women, as do scarves and hats and those things that keep their hair in place."

By all means others make a nasty remark like:there is no canonical requirement that women cover their heads in church today." The Pope disagrees with most of these people that say such a thing. Islamist are following there way as to how to Please God even Hebrews!

So what is the big problem with Christian faiths and Catholicism which is christian but Jewish.

Pope BenedictXVI condescending comment on the veil as a fashion accessory, demonstrates a distinct lack of respect for scriptural suggestions, and 1950 years of continuous custom and law in the Catholic Church. He is upset that the women and girls of the church are not respecting the Lord.

Nobody serious about their faith would suggest veils ought to be worn because they are pretty, or they hold a woman's hair in place. They are worn as a sign of respect, humility and submission, and because what is precious is to be veiled (tabernacle). Read the scripture, it's pretty unambiguous.

Should we be make backflips trying to avoid the clear literal intention just as the protestants do to John 6, and the last supper accounts? For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn. But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or made bald, let her cover her head. We as women and girls should be humble and copy Mary the Virgin!


There are many scriptural suggestions that the Church in her wisdom does not make canonical obligation, and rightly so, we should be obedient out of love, not a obligation.

The veil change happened the same way as other post-concillar concessions to disobedience.

Along with communion in the hand, altar girls, and the exclusivity of the vernacular, Church law came to allow what was imposed by mass disobedience. As a faithful Catholic and devout christian, I do agree with the pope and other secular laity consider bringing back the veil to be a high priority in the Church today's fast pasted world.

I think it isnt too late to restore this venerable custom to it's rightful place, but faithful Catholics should not ridicule it's use by referring to it a fashion accessory.

I am a cradle Catholic, I received all of the sacraments except Holy orders and matrimony, but not much of in the way of a Catholic education I am still studying my faith.

Like many in my generation, I was away from the Church for awhile I wouldnt say years but it was awhile. (I almost -- and literally -- had Hell to pay for it.) Thankfully, I'm now back in my faith and not into this fallen world of ours. I recently went to confession for the first time in my teens. I now try too attend daily Mass. I've also been studying our faith with a passion. I've just now begun the daunting and intimidating task of reading The Catechism of the Catholic Church. I've also been going to a lot of different Catholic-related sites on the Internet, which brings me to the point that I now want to make:

How does someone like myself -- sincere in her desire to learn all that she can about our Catholic faith, but who is nonetheless largely ignorant about that faith -- go about the ugly business of sorting through so much contradictory information concerning what the Church does or does not teach?

You'll tell me, for example, that women are not required to wear head coverings in church. Another web site (or person) will tell me the exact opposite. Neither site comes with an "imprimatur" or some other stamp of the Church's approval.

The Code of Canon Law if someone hit me upside the head with it. I don't want to forsake using the Internet altogether as I go about the important business of learning what the Catholic Church teaches -- reading stuff on the Internet has helped me tremendously, after all -- but I am quickly approaching that point. I guess what I am trying to determine is this: When the Catholic bloggers are done debating, who has the definitive word with respect to what the Church teaches and/or requires of the faithful? To whom do I turn?

Again, I apologize to you and your readers for running off to Tangent Land here, but this post on head coverings was precisely the sort of opening that I was looking for in order to ask the questions that I did. Any help that you or others may be able to offer would be much appreciated.I started investigating about head coverings in the Catholic church about a year ago and do understand that they are not mandated but they are. I have, however, started wearing a hair covering in church. I am trying to make a statement that we should bring the veils back into the seen!

Litteraly, and I am so upset that most women do not wear snoods or a chapel veil!It doesn't mean that I think I am better or holier than anyone else.

What it does mean is that in my heart, I feel closer to God when my head and body are respectfully covered. It shows my humility to the Lord and obedience to my husband Jesus the Christ the son of God in a very open manner. When I said Jesus our Lord is my husband I mean it I want to become a nun.

We cover the things that we respect. We are going to Mass to have a meal with the Lord. I can't think of anything more important!It really bothers me that other women do not cover their heads. We have many Phillipino and Hispanic women little black and a lot of Italian who attend our church, and a few of them do wear the veil.

Most do not.I feel it is a sin a sign of disrespect to the Lord! Pope Benedict has restored the Latin Mass.

If I where to say something to a immodest woman or girl I would say "They should have either offered you a chapel veil to wear, .... Canon law has never changed; women are supposed to cover their heads in church." Thanks be to God!

The Roman Missal promulgated by Paul VI (Novus Ordo) is the ordinary form to be used for the liturgy while the Missal promulgated by Pius XII and then by Bl. John XXIII (Missal of 1962) is the extraordinary form. The 1962 Missal was never outlawed. (Few people know this, that's why I put it in bold.)

In Masses without the people, priests can use the 1962 Missal except during the Triduum.

Communities or Institutes of Consecrated Life or Societies of Apostolic Life can use the 1962 Missal why cant we do that today this Cannon Law hasnt changed.

The faithful who wish to attend the Masses mentioned in Art. 2 can do so with permission.

Where a group desiring the celebration of the Mass according to the 1962 Missal stably exists in a parish, let the pastor accede to their requests willingly. There may only be one such celebration on Sundays and feast days.

In Masses according to the Missal of Bl. John XXIII the readings can be proclaimed in the vernacular.
If the faithful cannot obtain the celebration of the Mass according to the 1962 Missal from their pastor, let them go to their Bishop, if he cannot accommodate them, let them go to the Ecclesia Dei Commission.

If a Bishop wishes to grant a request for the use of the old Missal and is somehow prohibited, let him go to the Ecclesia Dei Commission for advice and help.

Pastors are allowed to celebrate the sacraments of Baptism, Matrimony, Penance, the Anointing of the Sick and Confirmation according to the 1962 Missal as the good of souls may suggest. Priests can also pray using the Roman Breviary of Bl. John XXIII.

Bishops can erect a personal parish for the celebration of the Roman rite according to the older forms.
The Ecclesia Dei Commission is to have the form, duties and norm for action that the Roman Pontiff may wish to assign to it.

The Ecclesia Dei Commission will exercise the authority of the Holy See by maintaining vigilance over the observance and application of these dispositions.

Whatever is decreed by Us by means of this Motu Proprio, we order to be firm and ratified and to be observed as of 14 September this year, the feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, all things to the contrary notwithstanding.

For example I found ONE congregation there that still celebrated the Mass in Latin it is called St. Anthony of Padua Church, so I decided to attend one Sunday in the future.

By all means as an example: I'm not sure what disappointed me the most! First, let me tell you If I was wearing a business suit and skirt, but I was looked at and steered away from by the congregation like I was a leper or something! What would that say too you sort of speak?

I was watching on television one day I thought about it, and decided that since I was already watching the Mass, the best thing was to just stay for the whole mass that was being said on TV. THEN came the sermon. The resident priest from Alabama was screaming from the pulpit that all those sinners who adopted the "New Mass" were going to HELL! See I think that people whom do such a thing and critize others is jugding God is the only judge!

I've been reading Traditional Catholic sites for a long time and although Traditionalist Catholics believe the Novus Ordo Mass is inferior to the Traditional Latin Mass, they all seem to agree that it is a valid Mass, having been established by Pope Paul VI.

With so few Latin Masses available now, many Traditionalist Catholics attend Novus Ordo Masses, because there is no Latin Mass available to them. That's what Benedict is trying to correct. I warn you Griff not to go to a  sedevacantist parish there tooooo radical in there beliefs and mean!

Sedevacantists today usually believe that there has been no valid pope since Pius XII. Others think John XXIII was validly elected and never intended Vatican II to make the radical changes it did, wouldn't have approved them if he'd lived. In any case, the priest you heard certainly sounds like he was a sedevacantist. I think I might have left at that point if I really was in the parish I changed the channel it turned me off and I said what a jerk, I put on 33 nickeloadean and watched spongebobsquarpants LOL to make me get the edge of my anger off and it worked yes I do have a child in my soul!

There's no excuse for rudeness and it's always very strange when people are rude at church.

I saw a good bit of it in Protestant churches growing up I had a friend whom was Catholic-Protestant a little bit of both and was confusing to me anyhow, I drew the pastor a picture of Jesus to say thank you for helping me see God in a way that I couldnt have and he said your welcome but denied the picture and said I am sorry but I do not want the picture we do not believe that Jesus looked as you drew him you have sinned he isnt suppose to be drawn like that you are Idol worshipping I cried when I came home and I have seen some in Catholic ones, too I was rudicualed for being a olive complexion Latina girl and called a spic by a white old man in his Late 70s that was racists against my culture he made fun of me and said Go back to your country you arrogant lump of waste you dont belong here,you arent an american your a spic you are not like us leave you leper you unclean woman then he told me to shutup with my comments. Yea It was rough to find a parish that would except me. I found one that is 105 years old they have Italian masses and have english translations. The parish is very sweet to me and dont care what or who I am. They are a traditional Old Italian Mass. Am I a big fan of Pope Benedict? Yes indeed.Vatican II but the bishops suppressed the Latin Mass.

I'm glad Benedict is standing up for traditional Catholic beliefs. He's being criticized in the media for saying things John Paul II and every other pope has said.

John Paul II tried to get the Latin Mass restored the media said more widely but the bishops didn't do much. I hope Benedict will follow through on this, not let the bishops get away with saying "There's no demand in my diocese." The Catholic boards are having flame wars over mantillas and communion rails. Some bishops think they outrank the pope these days. Initially, the Traditional Latin Mass was supposed to continue being offered, with the Novus Ordo or New Order being offered along with it. In practice, the bishops prohibited the Latin Mass up until John Paul II issued the letter regarding the "Indult," and they didn't change much after that, as I've already said.

If altar rails were restored, people would more easily be able to kneel for Communion at the Latin Mass but would not be prohibited from standing to receive at the NO Mass. At NO Masses, the priest could also stand in front of the altar rail.

Canon law has never changed; women are supposed to cover their heads in church. It was incorrectly reported during the Vatican II council that this would no longer be required and the Vatican never tried to correct that false report. Ever since I learned that, I've been trying too wear veils to Mass. Some women in my NO parish are wearing mantillas, so I'd guess they know it, too. I have one lay woman who wears a hat all the time!

Arguments are already brewing over the use of altar girls, which was prohibited under the 1962 missal.At the Novus Ordo Masses, things will go on as they have been, altar girls, lay ministers, and all.

They've ruled out the weekday masses, and the 9.0 a.m. Sunday (the Family Mass for families with young children).

The most likely will be the evening mass on Saturday or Sunday, or the 10.30 a.m. Sunday. I don't think it will be Sunday evening, because that's geared mainly to teens, and young people from the local schools take it in turns to present the liturgy - I don't think they'd take
kindly to the Latin.

So now you know why I am making a statement!

Blessings from God our Father AMEN



There's a Novus Ordo parish several towns near me that I've been told is like the one you describe in the last post; the people stare at newcomers and don't speak to them. People can be very strange.

















Chapel veils were kept in the purse in case a lady stopped into church unexpectedly.  

Answer
My extreme apologies for the delay, I have been away from my computer for much longer than I expected.  I think your points are basically valid.
I can's say whether covering one's head is a matter of Canon Law (I am unaware of any such provision, but there is much of Canon Law I have not read straight through), however it is explicitly called out in Scripture, as I think you know.
There is no distinction between wearing a full and proper chapel veil versus wearing a ladies' hat (I am talking about what women wear), or even those tiny little pancake-sized veils that don't even cover the top of the head, which some other ladies have worn.  Of course a hat that is really big or ostentatious might cause its own problems, but how often does that happen?
If it is a "scene" for a woman to cover her head in a church, that is one clear sign that the church where this happens is not Catholic, no matter what it fraudulently says on the sign out front.
Finally, an Islamic burqa is quite a different manner of head covering and here would come under the heading of pretentious, as it covers not only the head but even practically the whole face as well.  Such is way excessive and not even the strictest pre-Vatican II order of nuns has ever gone that far, though in Islamic nations such might be required, not by the Church, but by the State.  Obviously those women following an Islamic State Law by wearing a burqa everywhere (and to Church) need not add to that with any further sort of veil or hat.