Expert: J.M.J. West - 7/30/2008

Question
About Mary. No where in the bible does it say she was sinless.

                 Romans 3:23
23for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Does that say SOME or MOST have sinned? or ALL have sinned?

    Luke 1:46-47
   46And Mary said:
  "My soul glorifies the Lord
   47and my spirit rejoices in God my SAVIOR

Why would she need a "savior" if she NEVER sinned.

Like these two versus there are MANY that go against what the catholic church have made up/teach about Mary. And i say made up not to start an argument, but because it does not come form the bible which is the true word of god. These doctrines and dogmas are written and inspired through the thinking and logic of man (the POPE), and the bible is the word of GOD. So who am i to say NO NO i dont believe GODS word is sufficent, and i dont believe the bible is correct because my human logic tells me that MARY is this and this and a little bit of that. No, she is who the bible says she is. She was a sinner just like the rest of us. She needed salvation just like the rest of us.Was she blessed? Of course she was blessed, she was chosen to give birth to our lord and savior but it ends there. She was blessed just as moses, elijah, john the baptist, and the apostles were blessed. And just like I am blessed and just like every person who has come to know Jesus as their personal LORd and SAVIOR is blessed. We have all the answers we need right there in the bible.

Matthew 23:9

9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven

..............And that is JESUS who said that, not me.
But yet the catholics say, no no its ok to call a priest,deacon, or pope father. And not o nly do we call the pope father, but we call hi HOLY FATHER, it is crazy.
And again this are just a couple of little things out of MANY MANY MANY that the catholics condone. It is really sad.  

Answer
Manny,

I appreciate your concern for the apparent errors of Catholicism, and I trust your post is in good conscience and intent.  I trust that you're messaging me because you're afraid I'm in grave error as a Catholic, and you wish to help.  As your brother in Christ, I want to thank you first off for your amazing dedication to seeking the truth for yourself and others.

That said, I think that the Catholic position is much more firmly rooted than you think.

YOU WROTE:
"About Mary. No where in the bible does it say she was sinless.
Romans 3:23  for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Does that say SOME or MOST have sinned? or ALL have sinned?"

This is a question I deal with often as a Catechist.

Romans says "ALL" have sinned, but Jesus was a man who belonged to the category of "ALL", but of course he didn't sin.  St. Paul was using standard Jewish Hyperbole which doesn't necessarily mean every person ever, exhaustively, or else that would have to include Christ.

Mary needed a savior because Original Sin affects all humanity in some way, and we need salvation from that.  Original Sin (our fallen human nature) is like a pit into which humanity has fallen, and you can save someone from a pit in two ways.  You can reach in and pull him or her out (which is what Christ came to do for us by his atonement on the cross), or you can keep them from falling in all together (which is what he did in the case of Mary.)

The Immaculate Conception of Mary does NOT refer to the virgin birth of Christ.  It refers to Mary being conceived without the stain of original sin, and persisting sinless throughout her life due to that original sanctification.

An implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28).  The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word 'kecharitomene'. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

'Kecharitomene' is sometimes translated as “highly favored daughter of God”, but the word Daughter is nowhere in there.  Kecharitomene is perfect past participle of 'charitoo' which means “to grace”.  It means essentially that in a unique way.  Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present.  The Angel addresses Mary as 'kecharitomene', making that her title/name (compare this to every other angel encounter where the men fall on their faces and worship the angels!)

Mary is the New Eve in the New Covenant, foreshadowed in Genesis 3:15 as the Woman who is protected from the serpent by the enmity betwixt them, and who's seed (Christ) would crush the serpent.

The new covenant is greater and supercedes the old in all ways, the old FORESHADOWING the new.  We began with two sinless persons, it would make sense that since the new Adam is sinless, so too is the new Eve, Mary...it is FITTING.

Mary is also the New Ark of the Covenant. 2 Sam. 6:7 - the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb.

She is directly juxtaposed with the ark in John's Revelation:

“Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm. A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.  She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. (Revelation 11:19, 12:1-2)

The Jews had lost the ark, and this revelation of it’s location would have given them pause, but St. John’s Vision goes on immediately to juxtapose the lost ark with this Woman…"Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commandments and bear witness to Jesus" (v. 17)

And the Early Church taught this too.

"This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one." Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).

"She was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption." Hippolytus, Orations Inillud, Dominus pascit me (ante A.D. 235).

(note: those are well before Constantine legalized Christianity, this was the persecuted church's teachings!)

"Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin." Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388).

YOU WROTE:
"Like these two versus there are MANY that go against what the catholic church have made up/teach about Mary. And i say made up not to start an argument, but because it does not come form the bible which is the true word of god."

Do you know what else doesn't come from scripture?  The fact that John is scripture (or Luke, or Mark, or Peter, etc.).  Where did the canon of scripture come from?  How do you know what books belong in scripture if this matter is not scriptural?

YOU WROTE:
"These doctrines and dogmas are written and inspired through the thinking and logic of man (the POPE), and the bible is the word of GOD. "

But it was to Simon Peter that Christ gave the office of the keys (Matt 16:16-19, cf Isaiah 22:20) and the authority to "bind" and "loose" (i.e. determine sound doctrine (a similar but lesser authority - lacking the keys - was given to the other 11 two chapters later in Matt 18:18)

YOU WROTE:
"And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven"

Jesus did say "call no man Father", and also "teacher" and "master".  Yes, but it must be taken in context.  Jesus was showing that all fatherhood is rooted in the One True Father, God.  And Jesus himself speaks of "Father Abraham" in his parable of Lazarus and the rich man.  Stephen called Abraham “Father” (Acts 7:2), Paul called Isaac Father (Romans 9:10),    Paul claimed a spiritual fatherhood (1 Cor 4:14-15; 1 Tim 1:2), So did Peter (1 Peter 5:13), So did John (1 John 2:1).  And John called other men fathers too (1 John 2:13-14)

Understanding human fatherhood is crucial to understanding God’s Fatherhood, and so Jesus wasn't actually saying to stop using the word Father at all, but to understand that God is our Father primarily (as opposed to many worldly religions of the day that who taught that the man worshiped - the emperor or the pharaoh - was the father of the worshippers.)

He also said call no man “teacher” but appointed teachers (Matthew 28:19-20), and you certainly refer to people as "Teacher" or "Doctor" (from the Latin for "teacher").  And same with "Master", (what do you think Mr. "mister" is rooted in?).  So either be consistent and never call your dad "dad" again, or else understand the meaning here implied by Christ (again using that aforementioned Hebrew idiom.

I hope you found that helpful,

Here are a few links that you might also find helpful:
www.catholic.com
www.scripturecatholic.com

I'd love to answer any further questions you might have.

Peace of Christ,

-J.M.J. West