Expert: Sal - 9/16/2008

Question
QUESTION: I would like to ask how can a priest forgive sin when he is a sinner and the pope is a sinner as well after all all have sinned and fallin short of the glory of God.
Shurley only God can forgive sin.
After all Jesus is without sin

ANSWER: Dear Robbie:

Thanks for the good question. Catholics do go to God to receive forgiveness for sins. The priest cannot forgive sins by his own power. However, God chose to forgive our sins through the priest. Jesus said to the first priests, “If you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound” (John 20:23). Obviously in order for the Apostles to be able to forgive sins the people must confess orally to them so that they will know what sins to forgive. Just before Jesus gave the first priests the sacrament of Confession he told them, “As the Father has sent me, so I send you” (v. 21). The Father sent Jesus to forgive sin and to reconcile us to Him. Now Jesus gives this same mission to his priests. Also Jesus had told first Peter and then the rest of the Apostles, “Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matthew 16:18; 18:18). This certainly implies that they can hold sins bound or loose them, that is forgive them as Christ’s representative. St. James counseled that if a Christian is sick he should ask for the priests to come and pray for him. They will anoint the Christian with holy oil. St. James also tells the Christian to confess his sins and the priest will offer forgiveness in Jesus’ name (James 5:15-16). In Acts we read of oral confession in the early church. “Many also of those who were now believers came confessing and divulging their practices” (Acts 19:18). God has always used His priests to forgive sins in His name (see Leviticus 5:1-6, 13; 16:21; 19:21-22 for examples).

Confession is a great, merciful gift from God. By confessing to a priest we receive assurance of forgiveness and spiritual advice on how to avoid this sin in the future. Just asking God for forgiveness will not accomplish the assurance and advice that oral confession provides. Also oral confession teaches us humility which is a virtue to be sought. “In the same way, you young men must be obedient to the elders. In your relations with one another, clothe yourselves with humility because God ‘is stern with the arrogant but to the humble he shows kindness’” (1 Peter 5:5; see also Proverbs 3:34; 22:4; Matthew 23:12).

In conclusion, you are right that no man can forgive sin that is a prerogative of God. However, God does forgive sin through the priest, but it is God who actually forgives the sin. If I can be of further assistance just let me know.

God Bless You,
Sal      


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you sal for your answer
And thanks for your reply
But according to the bible we dont need a priest to offer us the sacrament of confession
In the old testerment it was the priests Job to ask for forgivness on the people behalf but not to forgive them.
Levitius 4
As you know the priest would take the lamb and slay it this was repersenting Christ as he is the lamb that takes awary the sin of the world John 1 29
After Jesus came to this earth and died for our sin the old system was done awary with so the priests dont need to be here but the ten commandemts were never done awary with.
All one has to do is ask God for forgivness through Jesus eg luke 11 verse 1 to 4 and first John 1 9 states If we confess our sins he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness and verse 7 of 1 john states and the blood of Jesus his son cleanses us from all sin  
John 20 23 i believe is talking about a person forgiving another person for the wrong that that person has done to them eg a man asking forgivenss for something he has stolen from his boss i dont believe it is talking about a priest forgiving the sins of a person.
Because according to 1 john 1 9 we dont need a priest
Matthew 16 verse 18 is talking about peter but it is not talking about building the church on peter.
Jesus here is talking about building the church on himself mark 12 10 is talking about Christ shurley if it was talking about peter he would say peter as the word peter means stone not rock.
The church can not be bult on sinfull man it can only be built on Jesus who is sinless.
Yes it is that simple going to the person you have wronged and asking forgiveness and asking God for forgivness is all one has to do.
Matthew 16 verse 19 is about the keys to heaven.
The keys to heaven been the bible as this is where man has to make a choice he has to accept the word of God or he has to reject the word of God those who accept the word of God are bound in heaven those who dont not accept the word of God are bound to this earth.
James 5 14 is talking about elders coming and praying for the sick person you are right but in verse 16 it is talking about confessing your sins to the person you have wronged not to a priest shurly if God had ment priest he would have had james put it in the bible

ANSWER: Dear robbie:

I agree that God forgives sin not man, but He chose to do this through His priests as previously stated. You offered nothing to dispute this only your wishes. The idea that John 20:23 means each person should forgive sins against him is not in the text. Jesus was speaking to his priests the Apostles not laypersons. 1 John 1:9 doesn't say we don't need priests. It is through them that we receive forgiveness of mortal or deadly sins. Matthew 16:18 is absolutely speaking about Peter. "You are Rock and on this rock I will build my church." Jesus could not be referring to anyone else. Many Protestant scholars even admit that the rock of this passage is Peter. The Keys are given to Peter. It is Peter and no other Apostle who receives the Keys of authority in Christ's Church. Protestant scholar's have long ago admitted that Peter equals rock not stone. I'm afraid that you have received inadequate religious instructions.

God Bless You,
Sal

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear Sal thanks for the reply
You make an intersting point but according to the bible the verse that you refer to says very clearly mattaw 16 verse 18 says you are peter and upon this rock i will build my church you and i will agree to disagree on this point as ibelieve when Jesus said rock he is talking about himself not peter.
The church will not save you for heaven nothing the church will do can save you it is your rele with Christ and Christ alone that will save you.
I have offered bible verse for this it is not my thoughts first 1 John chapter 5 verse 12 says he who has the son has life he who does not have the son does not have life
First John 1 verse 9 says if we confess our sins he is faithfull and rightous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Verse 10 says if we say that we have not sinned we make him a lair and his word is not in us.
Also John chapter 1 verse 29 says the next day he saw Jesus coming towards him and said behold the lamp of God that takes awary the sin of the world
John 3 16 says for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton son that whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life
These verse prove that only through Jesus can we be saved not the priest and if it was Gods will for a priest to help save people from there sins what was the point of Christ coming to this earth to save us from our sins there would be no point at all
If the verse talking about peter been the rock and the cathloic church which says peter is the first pope then why does the cathloic church not keep all the ten commandmets in regards to saterday which was changed by the roman leader conistine from saterday to sunday
Shurley if the cathloic church is Gods church it would keep all the commandments of God
Here are some statments talking about this change from cathloic leaders
  “Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 edition), p. 72-73 (16th Edition, p 111; 88th Edition, p. 89).
 “For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible.” Catholic Virginian, October 3, 1947, p. 9, article “To Tell You the Truth.”
The Bible says in revelation chapter 22 verse 18 to 19 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book if anyone adds to them God will take awary his part from the tree of lifeand from the holy city which are written in this book
And if anyone takes awary from the words of the book of this prophecy God will take awary his part from the tree of life and from the holy city which are written in this book.
So according to these verses no man has any power to change the worship of God from saterday to sunday
God bless you sal

Answer
Dear Robbie:

You seem to not see what I write. I have said that priests do not save us or forgive our sins. It is God alone who does that. He wishes to do this through His Catholic Church and it's priests. If you cannot accept that then your problem is with God and the Bible not me and the Catholic Church.

Now let’s look at the question of why don’t most Christians observe the 7th day Sabbath. The answer is simply that Sabbath-keeping is not a requirement in the New Covenant. Whatever day one chooses to gather with other believers and to worship together on is acceptable to the Lord. All who worship “the Father in Spirit and in truth” (John 4:23) will be blessed. It is acceptable to meet for worship on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, etc. As St. Paul so clearly put it, “One man regards this day as better than that; someone else considers all days alike. Each should be certain in his own conscience. The man who observes the day does so to honor the Lord” (Romans 14:5-6).

Let us note right up front that while the Sabbath is called the sign of God’s covenant with His people in the Old Covenant it is never called such in the New Covenant. The Old Testament contains lists of Sabbath restrictions (see Exodus 16:23, 29; 20:10; 31:14-15; 34:21; 35:3; Nehemiah 13:19; Jeremiah 17:21-22), and the penalty for Sabbath violation-death-is made perfectly clear (see Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2; Numbers 15:35-36). The New Testament, however, contains no list of Sabbath restrictions and never is Sabbath-breaking listed among New Testament sins (see Mark 7:21-22; Romans 1:29-32; Galatians 5:19-21; 2 Timothy 3:1-4; Revelation 21:8). St. Paul who wrote much to the Gentile converts never even once mentioned that keeping the Sabbath was of any importance. He also never mentioned to the Gentiles how they were supposed to keep this Jewish weekly festival. All this is strange, indeed, if the 7th day Sabbath is still a requirement in the New Covenant as the SDA claims.

The Ten Commandments were the heart of the Old Covenant. “So Moses stayed there with the Lord for forty days and forty nights, without eating food or drinking water, and he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant: the Ten Commandments” (Exodus 34:28). “He proclaimed to you his covenant which he commanded you to keep: the Ten Commandments, which he wrote on two tablets of stone” (Deuteronomy 4:13).

The 7th day Sabbath was the sign of the Old Covenant between God and the Israelites. “So shall the Israelites observe the Sabbath, keeping it throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. Between me and the Israelites it is to be an everlasting sign” (Exodus 31:16-17; see also Exodus 31:13). “I gave them my Sabbaths to be a sign between me and them, to show that it was I, the Lord, who made them holy” (Ezekiel 20:12; see also Ezekiel 20:20). “For remember that you were once slaves in Egypt and the Lord, your God, brought you from there with his strong hand and outstretched arm. That is why the Lord, your God, has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day” (Deuteronomy 5:15).

The Old Covenant that contained the Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath, was for the Israelites only. The only exception would be Gentile converts and others under the authority of the Israelites (see Exodus 20:10). The entire 613-law covenant was for the Israelites only. “Or what great nation has statutes and decrees that are as just as this whole law which I am setting before you today?” (Deuteronomy 4:8). “He has proclaimed his word to Jacob, his statutes and his ordinances to Israel. He has not done thus for any other nation; his ordinances he has not made known to them” (Psalm 147:19-20). “And I have placed there the ark, in which abides the covenant of the Lord, which he made with the Israelites”(2 Chronicles 6:11).

The Bible is clear that the Mosaic or Old Covenant was between God and the Israelites, and no one else.  This is why God through His prophets never condemns Gentiles for not keeping the Sabbath. It was never God’s plan to have Gentiles, as a people, to observe the Sabbath. The SDA will try to get around this fact by attempting to prove that the Sabbath command did not originate with Moses, but was given to man at Creation. The “Creation Ordinance” theory is extremely weak. The SDA further claims that the 7th day Sabbath was kept by all the great patriarchs-Adam, Seth, Noah, Shem, and Abraham. The Bible itself, however, presents a different story. “The Lord, our God, made a covenant with us at Horeb (another name for Mount Sinai), not with our fathers did he make this covenant, but with us, all of us who are alive here today” (Deuteronomy 5:2-3). This scripture is clear that no one had the covenant, the sign of which was the Sabbath, prior to Moses and Mount Sinai. “Not with our fathers” is a way of saying “Not with our ancestors” who were considered the “fathers” of the Israelites. There is abundant Biblical evidence that this is precisely what Moses meant. “He has dealt mercifully with our fathers, and remembered the holy covenant He made” (Luke 1:72). “In times past, God spoke in fragmentary and varied ways to our fathers through the prophets” (Hebrews 1:1). St. Paul, in speaking of the Exodus, stated, “Brothers, I want you to remember this: our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea” (1 Corinthians 10:1). Jesus, also speaking of the Exodus, used the term fathers when referring to ancestors, “Your fathers ate manna in the desert, but they died” (John 6:49). The Book of Acts contains many references to the ancestors of the Jews as fathers (see 2:29; 3:13; 15:10; 22:3, 14; 24:14; 28:17, 25). St. Stephen, in his final discourse, makes no less than eleven such references (see 7:2, 11, 12, 15, 19, 32, 38, 39, 44, 51, 52).  

“On Mount Sinai you came down, you spoke with them from heaven. You gave them just ordinances, firm laws, good statutes, and commandments. Your holy Sabbath you made known to them, commandments, statutes, and law you prescribed for them, by the hand of Moses your servant” (Nehemiah 9:13-14).

Notice that the Sabbath was “made known” to the Israelites it was not “retold” or “relearned” because it was new. Therefore, it was not a Creation Ordinance as claimed.

St. Paul informs us that the Mosaic Covenant, including the Sabbath, came into being 430 years after the promise of God to Abraham. It was not eternal. Further, St. Paul tells us that the covenant with the Israelites came to an end when Christ came. It was not everlasting.

“My point is this: a covenant formally ratified by God is not set aside as invalid by any law that came into being 430 years later, nor is its promise nullified…it was to be valid only until that descendant or offspring came to whom the promise had been given” (Galatians 3:17, 19).

This is very clear Biblical evidence that the Old Covenant has a beginning and an ending. Therefore, the Sabbath command is no longer valid. The Old Covenant was always “destined to pass away” (2 Corinthians 3:11). If there is any little bit of doubt that this means the Ten Commandments just read v. 7: “If the ministry of death, carved in writing on stone…” No doubt should remain with the honest Bible student that the Ten Commandments, the sign of which is the Sabbath command, are no longer in effect.

The Bible is clear that the Old Covenant is now obsolete. “When he says, ‘a new covenant’, he declares the first obsolete” (Hebrews 8:13). “In other words, he takes away the first covenant to establish the second” (Hebrews 10:9). “In his own flesh he abolished the law with its commands and precepts” (Ephesians 2:15). “He canceled the bond that stood against us with all its claims, snatching it up and nailing to the cross” (Colossians 2:14). Since the Old Covenant is obsolete so must be the sign of that covenant, the 7th day Sabbath.  The Sabbath has no place in the New Covenant. The reality to which the Sabbath pointed has come, therefore, the shadow must disappear.

“No one is free, therefore, to pass judgment on you in terms of what you eat or drink or what you do on yearly or monthly feasts, or on the Sabbath. All these were but a shadow of things to come; the reality is the body of Christ” (Colossians 2:16-17).

No matter how good the shadow may be, it becomes a hindrance if it remains along side the reality. For example, John the Baptizer’s ministry was good, but it was a mere shadow of the greatness that was to be found in Christ’s ministry. “There is one among you whom you do not recognize-the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to unfasten” (John 1:26-27). John seemed to realize that he would be in the way of people coming to Jesus, the reality that he foreshadowed.  “He must increase, while I must decrease” (John 3:30).

Another illustration from Scripture showing that the Old Covenant, the law and the prophets, is obsolete occurs in Matthew 17. Here Jesus is transfigured before some of his Apostles. “Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared to them conversing with him” (v.3). After God blesses Jesus with these words, “This is my beloved Son on whom my favor rests. Listen to him” (v.5), the Apostles fell down in fear. Then we have the part of this story, the significance of which is often overlooked. “When they looked up they did not see anyone but Jesus” (v.8). The significance of this is that before God’s people looked to the law and the prophets for salvation. Now Moses, who represents the law, and Elijah, who represents the prophets, are gone. The law and the prophets, in other words, the entire Old Covenant is no longer to be looked to for guidance in all matters. Jesus is now the only one that we are to look to.

The rabbis in Jesus’ day had a saying, “Come to the Sabbath and it will give you rest.” Jesus boldly declared himself to be the fulfillment of the Sabbath when he said, “Come to me, all you who are weary and find life burdensome, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon your shoulders and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble of heart. Your soul will find rest, for my yoke is easy and my burden light” (Matthew 11:28-30).

Our Sabbath rest is now Jesus no longer is it a day. Jesus proclaimed himself “Lord of the Sabbath” (Matthew 12:8) because he has authority over it. No longer must we keep a day and look to it for salvation. We now look to Jesus and him alone for the true salvation that only he can bring. “There is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name in the whole world given to men by which we are to be saved” (Acts 4:12). The Old Covenant people of God rested with Him for 24 hours only one day a week. The New Covenant people of God rest in the finished work of Christ 24/7. “Therefore, a Sabbath rest still remains for the people of God” (Hebrews 4:9). The rest spoken of is not found in a day, for the people of God in the Old Covenant had and kept the 7th day Sabbath yet they failed to enter into the rest of God. The true rest of God is found in the person and work of Christ. “We have indeed heard the good news, as they (the Israelites) did. But the word which they heard did not profit them, for they did not receive it in faith. It is we who have believed who enter into that rest” (Hebrews 4:2-3).

Let me point out the further superiority of the Christian rest. The Old Covenant people of God’s rest was one marked by inactivity (see Exodus 16:23; 20:10; 31:14-15; 35:2). The New Covenant people of God emphasize not a day, but the new commandment of our Lord to love one another as he has loved us (see John 13:34-35; 15:12). We show this selfless love by sacrificing ourselves for the most needy (see Matthew 25:31-40). So while the Old Covenant people of God had a physical rest we have a superior spiritual rest.

Let us take seriously St. Paul’s admonishments of the Galatian Christians. “It was for liberty that Christ freed us. So stand firm, and do not take on yourselves the yoke of slavery a second time!” (Galatians 5:1). “Anyone of you who seeks your justification in the law have severed yourselves from Christ and fallen from God’s favor!” (v.4). What was the big problem that Paul so harshly fought against? The Galatians were being influenced to observe the Jewish Sabbaths. “You even go so far as to keep the ceremonial observances of days, and months, seasons, and years! I fear for you; all my efforts with you may have been wasted” (4:10-11). May Christ’s efforts for us never be wasted!

In conclusion, Christians do not observe the 7th day Sabbath because it is not required of them by Jesus their Lord. The 7th day Sabbath was never meant to be observed by anyone other than the Israelites. One may worship on Saturday if one chooses to (see Romans 14:5), but it is not a salvation issue as the SDA try to make it.          

God Bless,
Sal