Expert: J.M.J. West - 5/9/2009

Question
It appears I am cut-off after 3 replies so I just wanted to BRIEFLY respond to your last input.  Thanks for making me smile by asking if I were a 'SDA.'  No, I am not.  Just a man searching for God's truth and trusting He will point my way. Your reply about the three 24 hrs day periods sounds amazingly like an SDA article in Apr 1956 of the Review & Herald.  I don't buy it. The Bible seems specific enough about counting time (Nehemiah 5:14). The Talmud or man is not the authority/tradition here - it is God. Again in Esther 4:16 and 5:1 where Jews were to fast 3 days & nights.  You think they only fasted part of the days/nights?  No, I don't buy it again but the SDA and apparently you and the RC Church does. Your comment about confession supported by John 20:20 leaves me at a loss.  Sure you got the right stuff here?  The 24 Elders are human?  Where did you come up with this one??http://www.gracesermons.com/robbeeee/tim3.html This is an article I recently read on the internet about succession.  Your supporting quotes of the Church Fathers are all included here.  You guys have a script or something to work off??? lol  And since Constantine and his Sunday worship and trinity doctrine via his 'direction' to your changing/adding verbage to the KJV (Easter) and others to your current positioning for a power role in the EU makes one like me think of Revelation's warnings. Too many wrongs to have a check turned, I fear. The HRE is coming again but it will only be for a short time.  Then Our Lord will come with a trumphet blast - not a secret rapture - and the DEAD first will rise with those 'elect' to meet the Lord and lead Him triumphantly to Jerusalem, Mt. of Olives.  Until that time, be well and may we both draw closer to our Lord in truth.  Thanks for the chat.

Answer
Sorry for the delay, but I've been very busy with end of the school year work.

*Your reply about the three 24 hrs day periods sounds amazingly like an SDA article in Apr 1956 of the Review & Herald.  I don't buy it. The Bible seems specific enough about counting time (Nehemiah 5:14). The Talmud or man is not the authority/tradition here - it is God. Again in Esther 4:16 and 5:1 where Jews were to fast 3 days & nights.  You think they only fasted part of the days/nights*

I think it's a mistake to think that the scriptures use the same conception of time through and through.  They are a number of books, written via different human authors (under divine inspiration, no doubt), in different styles, for different reasons and audiences.

I'm not going to open the can of worms, but Genesis 1-3 uses a lot of language which relates that the language used is not strictly literal (eg. Was man created after the plants and animals, as per Genesis 1, or before them, as per Genesis 2.  They cannot both be LITERALLY true, but they may yet both be true, communicating primordial truth about why we were created.  The Jews often mythologized history (but would not historicize myth))

*our comment about confession supported by John 20:20 leaves me at a loss*

I misquoted by one verse.  Start with v. 21

'Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."'

The father send Christ to forgive sins.  Christ sent his apostles for the same reason, and he gave to them the authority to forgive OR retain sins (meaning they must know what the sins are).

*http://www.gracesermons.com/robbeeee/tim3.html This is an article I recently read on the internet about succession.  Your supporting quotes of the Church Fathers are all included here.*

At a glance, this seems like a superficial treatment similar to bible.ca's work on catholicism

*And since Constantine and his Sunday worship and trinity doctrine via his 'direction' to your changing/adding verbage to the KJV (Easter) and others to your current positioning for a power role in the EU makes one like me think of Revelation's warnings.*

It wasn't Constantine.  That you'd make such a mistake leads me to believe you're believing what others - less than fully informed others - have told you and not what you've researched.

"In fine, let him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day because of the threat of death, teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath, or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered "friends of God." For if circumcision purges a man since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did He not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? At all events, in settling him in paradise, He appointed one uncircumcised as colonist of paradise. Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised, and inobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering Him sacrifices, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was by Him commended; while He accepted what he was offering in simplicity of heart, and reprobated the sacrifice of his brother Cain, who was not rightly dividing what he was offering. Noah also, uncircumcised--yes, and inobservant of the Sabbath--God freed from the deluge. For Enoch, too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and in-observant of the Sabbath, He translated from this world; who did not first taste death, in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might by this time show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God." Tertullian, An answer to the Jews, 2 (A.D. 203)

More: http://scripturecatholic.com/sunday_worship.html

Pax Christi,

-J.M.J. West

ADDENDUMS:

1)  Easter was always celebrated on Sunday, the First day.  Nicea set to determine WHICH Sunday.  CF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_controversy#Second_phase

2) The vacation is because on top of your question I get another 4 per day, which is very time consuming.  I'm willing to continue our discussion, but I need a break this time of year from ALL of the questions.   

You may email me at aphisherofmen (at) gmail (dot) com