Expert: Sal - 7/3/2010

Question
QUESTION: Sals quote.
27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?' 28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied. "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?' 29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'" (Mt. 13:24-30).end quote.

Sal, didn't Jesus say, John 4:  35   Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then  cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
 36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
 37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
 38 I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.

Sal the harvest is already in progress and it has for centuries.. And the Holy Spirit is already bringing in the harvest of His  wheat, making deference between the tares.. And He is not gathering His wheat into some man built grain bins, but into His Kingdom...

Your faithfulness to the grain bin, has caused you to miss being gathered into His Kingdom. You have eyes to see, but see not! He is referring to spiritual truth, which is not learned in seminaries, or theological institutions Sal.

I'm sorry that you have allowed wood, hay , and stubble to be built on your foundation of faith in Christ.

As Paul related to some of his charges.... " ...You were in darkness, until now!"

Sincerely In Christs
Mr.B.

ANSWER: Dear Mr. B.:

I guess we are not understanding each other. Once again I completely agree with you that the harvest is going on right now that is, people are being saved. I agree that Mt. 13 is a spiritual truth. For some reason you think this disproves the Catholic Church's claim to be the Church founded by Christ, it doesn't in the least.

God Bless You,
Sal

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sal, doesn't it seem a little odd, that Peter himself, never made, or even hinted at this claim, of him being made head of the church? Surely, knowing Peters character, he would have shouted this from the housetops?

I think that those, at the time, jumped to a wrong conclusion, and it has carried on to this day. A doctrine, based on a wrong premise, is still a wrong doctrine..

1 Cor.12:25  That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

2 Tim 4: 22  The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen. The second epistle unto Timotheus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Ephesians, was written from Rome, when Paul was brought before Nero the second time.

Titus 3; 15  All that are with me salute thee. Greet them that love us in the faith. Grace be with you all. Amen. It was written to Titus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Cretians, from Nicopolis of Macedonia.

1Peter2:25  For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Following these scriptures, it doesn't depict Peter as head of any church. Peter isn't even mentioned by any of the other New testament writers..

There just isn't enough evidence, from any other biblical source to make a case for Peter... being anything but an apostle, as the rest... Especially when Paul comes along,

Galatians chapter 2:7  But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was  unto Peter;
 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
 10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
 11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Sorry Sal, but even Paul, who was there at the times, never claimed Peter had any authority differing from his... Peters ministry was to the Jew, and Pauls to the Gentile...

How the catholic church has turned and twisted the truth to their own ends, God help them!

Sincerely In Christ
Mr. B, an Apostle of Jesus Christ.

ANSWER: Dear Mr. B.:

I believe that Peter learned humility after he died our Lord three times. I absolutely don't believe that he would boastfully proclaim his authority. That would have beed a great sin indeed. The major problem between us is the different ways that we view Scripture. You want it to give you the fullness of a doctrine, practice or institution. If you don’t see it you assume that it doesn’t exist. I, on the other hand, recognize the development of a doctrine, practice or institution. The Church did not cease to grow and develop with the completion of the books of the New Testament. I see this belief present in the parables of the mustard seed and the yeast (Matthew 13:31-33). Here Jesus informs us of growth in the kingdom of heaven. So it is with the issue under discussion, the papacy. You will not find on the pages of the New Testament Peter possessing full-blown papal authority as Pope Benedict XVI has today. What you will find is Peter possessing the beginnings of papal authority. Some may not be satisfied that Jesus instituted the papacy unless he said, “Peter you are the first pope and head of my Church.” While I am satisfied when I discover the Old Testament typology. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Davidic type. The Davidic kings had many ministers in their kingdoms. They needed and appointed a prime minister to be over the other ministers. The prime minister had authority only second to the king himself. Jesus is the king. The Apostles and their successors, the bishops, are the ministers. Peter and his successors, the popes, are the prime ministers in Jesus’ kingdom.

We see in John 21:15-17 Peter being made the chief shepherd by the Good Shepherd himself. It is unlikely that Jesus would see a need for a chief shepherd to protect the flock against wolves (heretics) in the first century, but not see fit to continue this office for the benefit of later generations of Christians.

In Matthew 16:17-19 Peter receives an office from Jesus that is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant’s chief steward or prime minister. The office of chief steward continued after the holder of the office died or, as in Isaiah 22, was disposed. It would be perfectly natural for Jews to understand that Jesus meant for his chief steward to have succession after Peter’s death. The early Church believed this. If someone came teaching as a bishop the Church applied the test of apostolic succession. Could the claimant trace his lineage bishop to bishop back to the Apostles? If not, this man’s authority was rejected.

Jesus promised to be with his Church always (Matthew 28:20). How fitting that he should be with his Church through his vicar, the successor of Peter. The vicar of the king represented him to the people and so, too, does the Vicar of Christ.

If the Catholic Church is wrong in its belief that Jesus gave Peter special authority, endowed him with a special office and willed that office be continued throughout time then the blame for that must fall squarely on the shoulders of our Lord. For he chose to quote the installation ceremony of the chief steward of the Davidic kingdom in Matthew 16, and thereby misled the Catholic Church.

Best Wishes,
Sal        
 

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sal, this is the point of it all.....

Jesus promised to be with his Church always (Matthew 28:20). How fitting that he should be with his Church through his vicar, the successor of Peter. The vicar of the king represented him to the people and so, too, does the Vicar of Christ.

Jesus is with His Church Sal....In/through/by the Holy Spirit. "Greater is He who abides in me, than he who is in the world!" Which should be the confession of every believer, who has received Christ.

In the Old Testament, the High Priest would enter the holy of holies, and meet with God. BUT, that veil has been rent from top to bottom, so that all may enter, and receive from God themselves.
Hebrews 10:11  And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
 15 Whereof {the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us}: for after that he had said before,
 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
 19 Having therefore, brethren, {{boldness to enter into the holiest}} by the blood of Jesus,
 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
 21 {{And having an high priest over the house of God;}}[Note,we are that house Sal.]
 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil/sin conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.[Note:Pure Water/Living Water, is the word of God, made Rhema/alive in us, and to us, and through us!]

When Jesus came again, as the Holy Spirit, He was to indwell all believers who received Him. Acts 2. Now the High Priest dwells within, and not after the lineage of Aaron, but Melchizadek.

The Spirit of Jesus Christ, through His leading, unction, and power, believers are to be moulded, conformed, shaped, and transformed into His  image and likeness... " They that are led by the Spirit, are the sons of God!" " If the Spirit of Christ does not dwell in you, you are neither His! " Romans.

The GodHead dwells in bodily form. It did in Jesus singularily, and now through His Spirit, corporately.

The Catholic Church is wrong, not only in its belief that Peter is a somebody, or Mary, and many, many of its teachings. And it wasn't Jesus who misled those of the time, but men, not led by the Spirit of Christ. And still is today...

I know, and live among many catholics, who have faithfully attended their church, partaken of the mass, countless times over some of their 50/60 years, and are not one bit free from sin/carnality/fear, or like Christ in any way, shape, or form.. They still possess the likeness of adam of old, the new birth has not taken place, God is not their father.  They can't even talk, the walk, much less walk the talk....  They do not possess, what is supposedly provided through their teachings.

The Holy Spirit, if in residence in a believer, is able to  manifest the presence of His Lordship, as Paul relates in 1 Cor.12, personally, and through 1 Cor 14, corporately.

Hebrews 2:1..Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them  slip.
 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
..........................................................................Notice, GOD also bearing Witness, with.............HIS CHILDREN, BARE HIS LIKENESS!

Aristotle, was charged with heresy, and at his trial, his defense was this. "When you plaintiffs were young, and being taught the things you have held to your belief all this time, there was no one there, at that time to refute, or challenge  what you were being taught......UNTIL NOW!

Sincerely In Christ, and Him in me!
Mr.B.

Answer
Dear Mr B.:

You seem to be under the false impression that the Catholic Church replaces the Holy Spirit with the Pope. The Catholic Church indeed has the Holy Spirit to guide and protect her from teaching error. That doesn't mean that Jesus didn't found this Church alone of all the churches out there. All other churches are man-made. Only the Catholic Church is God-made. I realize that you are currently unable to deal with this fact. But deal with it you must. You have said many things that you mistakenly believe refutes Peter being the first Pope. You have said many thing that you mistakenly believe refutes the Catholic Church being Christ's One True Church. You have not proven either point. Many things that you say are not in disagreement with the papacy and the Catholic Church. Believers having the Holy Spirit and having the likeness of God is very Catholic. It seems to me that you just want to do what you want and not have any God-given authority in the world. Well Jesus would not let such a thing happen; therefore, he wisely left his children with the Catholic Church to save his children from error and sin. Thanks be to God for His gift of the papacy and the Catholic Church which are indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

Have a Blessed Day,
Sal