Expert: Sal - 5/5/2004

Question
Hi Sal,

Are the Catholic bishops of the state church in China considered valid bishops?  Since there is an underground church in China, how does the Vatican regard the bishops appointed by the Chinese government?  Is it true that the word 'Baptism' means immersion?  Finally, if a person were to drink an excessive amount of Jesus' blood, could he/she get drunk from it or would that not be possible because of the real presence?

Thank you,

Les

Answer
Hi Les:

Nice to hear from you again.

The Catholic Church does not recognize the Bishops of the Communist Chinese supported Catholic Patriotic Association (CPA). The CPA is a state run church that does not profess unity with the Pope.

A person could certainly get drunk if he consumed a large quantity of communion wine. The alcoholic content does not change with the wine's consecration. The things that may vary in wine and not affect its being wine are called “accidents”. The accidents of wine are its flavor, color, temperature, and its strength. Things that may not vary, a things intrinsic quality that makes it what it is, is called its “substance”. The substance of the wine is its alcoholic content and it being made from fermented juice.

Usually when a things substance changes so does its accidents. For example, the changing of water into wine as our Lord did at the wedding feast of Cana (see John 2:1-11). However, in the unique case of the Eucharist the substance does change, but the accidents do not. It still looks and tastes like wine, but it is something different. Its substance has changed so that it now is the Blood of Christ. We cannot rely on our senses we must see with the eyes of faith (cf. II Corinthians 5:7). Our Lord claimed, “Let me solemnly assure you, if you don't eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you” (John 6:53). How are we to eat his flesh and drink his blood?

“During the meal Jesus took bread, blessed it, broke it, and gave it to his disciples. ‘Take this and eat it,' he said, ‘this is my body.' Then he took the cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them. ‘All of you must drink from it,' he said, ‘for this is my blood, the blood of the covenant, to be poured out in behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins'” (Matthew 26:26-28).

The word “Baptism” has a variety of meanings: dipping, pouring, immersing, sprinkling, rinsing, cleansing, to dye. As always we must let the context determine the meaning. It may be informative to know that the word baptism and its variants imply a sudden change. One who accepts baptism undergoes a profound sudden change in to a new creation, a child of God. The Bible does not tell us how to baptize. It does stress the importance of baptism. “I solemnly assure you, no one can enter into God's kingdom without being begotten of water and Spirit” (John 3:5). Jesus, in the Great Commission, gave us words of baptism, but he never gave us a particular mode to follow.  “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations. Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19). The necessity of baptism is clear in the Bible, but no where is the mode of baptism stated clearly. The Catholic Church, therefore, recognizes pouring, sprinkling, and immersion as all equally valid modes of baptism. (see Catechism, no.1239).

Those who teach that one must be immersed for a baptism to be valid have no solid biblical basis for such a belief. For example, if baptism always means total immersion in water then we are presented with the silly situation of the Pharisees being upset with Jesus because he did not immerse himself in water before eating! (see Luke 11:37-38).

Can baptism mean total immersion in I Corinthians 10:1-2? “Brothers, I want you to remember this: our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; by the cloud and the sea all of them were baptizes into Moses.” The Israelites were not immersed in the cloud or the sea (see Exodus 14:21-22). The  idea of  “baptized into Moses” means that the Israelites were united in a covenantal relationship with God through Moses.

Another passage showing that baptism does not always and only mean immersion in water is I Corinthians 12:13: “It was in one Spirit that all of us…were baptized into one body.” The idea here is unity not immersion.

Does Acts 1:5 mean that the believer will be totally immersed in the Holy Spirit? “John baptized with water, but within a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” What does the Bible say actually happened in the fulfillment of this prophecy? “Tongues as of fire appeared, which parted and came to rest on each of them” (Acts 2:3). This is not immersion, but it points toward the idea of unity. Also we read concerning the coming of the Holy Spirit, “comes down” (Acts 1:8), “pour out” (Acts 2:17), descended upon” (Acts 10:44),  “fell upon” (Acts 11:15). Nothing here indicates immersion in water.  

Baptism primarily means being in union with God. “Are you not aware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Through baptism into his death we were buried with him, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live a new life” (Romans 6:3-4). In this passage St. Paul clearly teaches that being baptized means being in unity with Christ. “If we have been united with him through likeness to his death, so shall we be through a like resurrection” (vs. 5). This is a teaching on the meaning of baptism not the mode to be used.

I hope that this was helpful to you, Les.

God Bless You,
Sal