Expert: Sal - 5/1/2007

Question
Dear Sal:

I am neither Catholic nor Protestant but have a general interest in religion, the Bible, etc. Therefore, take any question I give you as merely being Devil's advocate. To a Catholic I will present what I think are good Protestant arguments and to a Protestant I will present what I think are good Catholic arguments. Which brings me to the Virgin Mary. Do you think that maybe Catholics overdo it on Marian worship (or reverence as a good Catholic would rather put it)? Mary is seen by the church as perfect, sinless, the most ideal of all women and all mothers, but in the second chapter of Luke and in Mark 3:20-35, Mary seems to be ignorant or at least puzzled at Jesus' mission and identity. Luke 1:46-47, Mary says that "...my spirit rejoiceth in God my Savior." If Mary was free of sin, why would she call God "my Savior"? Sinless people do not need a Savior (although, I suppose one could make the argument that Mary's use of the word 'savior' could mean she sees God as saving her from something other than sin). Romans 3:23 says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God".   Revelation 15:4 says, "Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name?  For thou only art holy".  Romans 3:10 says, "There is none righteous, no, not one". The only person the Scriptures identifies as truly sinless (by name at least) is Jesus Christ. This would seem to be Scriptural "proof" against Mary's completely sinless nature. Mary is also seen by Catholics as a mediator between us and her son, Jesus. However, 1 Timothy 2:5-6 says that Jesus is the one mediator between God and men. To my knowledge and memory, Mary is not mentioned with any great reverence in any of the Epistles of the New Testament. Surely, Paul, Peter, James, John, Timothy, had they thought it important would have mentioned Mary as a symbol for Christians or a mother to the entire church. I also understand that the Catholic response to those who say it is wrong to ask Mary for intercessional help, that this asking of intercession to Mary and the Saints is just like someone asking a friend or relative to pray for them. The difference here though, as I see it, is that while if I am dreadfully sick I may ask my friend to pray for me, I do not kneel before him or her or call him or her "Holy" "Blessed", etc., I ask my friend to pray for me, but I do not approach my friend with such extraordinary awe and praise. Catholics do not worship Mary but give her "hyperdulia", yet in reality, the difference between hyperdulia and worship seems negligible. Even Pope John Paul II, who I would aptly call GREAT, believed it was Mary that saved him from an assassins bullet, to her went his thanks. Seems close to worship to me, it treats a person with incredible awe, and if all the world became Catholic and all prayed to Mary, she would be able to hear all the prayers of all the faithful---is she omnipotent and omniscient? Aren't those attributes of God alone, not an angel nor a great soul? Catholics call Mary "our Mother" but in Luke 11:27-28 it says "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.  But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." Jesus could have applauded this woman's statement, he could have instructed her to indeed bless the womb that bore Him. He did not do or say such a thing. How can one square early Church tradition which does show reverence and devotion to Mary (there are hymns to her dating back to at least the fourth century) with the Scriptures which seem, after the nativity, to say next to nothing about her which would warrant the hyperdulia given to her by Roman Catholics.

Thank you for your time. I apologize if any of this has come off as hostile or offensive, but although in my studies of comparative religions and beliefs, the Catholics and Orthodox have a slight edge over the Protestants, on Mary, I tend to see a better Protestant argument, but I look forward to that being taken apart :-)

Sincerely,
Benjamin


Answer
Dear Benjamin:

You have asked a number of very good questions. I will attempt to briefly answer them all.
1. I do not believe that Catholics give too much reverence to Mary. She is absolutely unique as the Mother of God (Lk 1:43). She is also our Mother as Christians (Jn 19:25-27 & Rv 12:17). Just as Jesus undoubtedly gave great honor to his mother (cf. Ex 20:12) so should we.

2. Mary seeming to be ignorant or puzzled at her son’s mission is not strange to me considering that his mission was unique. It took time for her to realize all that her son had to accomplish and how he would accomplish it.

3. Mary being without sin is not compromised by her calling God her savior (Lk 1:46-47). God saved Mary from contracting original sin. We Catholics call this the Immaculate Conception. God saves us from original sin after we are born. Mary was saved from original sin in the womb of her mother.

4. The passages that you mentioned Rm 3:23, Rv 15:4, and Rm 3:10 do not prove Mary to be a sinner. Rm 3:23 “For all have sinned…” This means that both Jews and Gentiles as groups of people have sinned. It does not mean that each individual person has sinned. We know that Paul does not mean that literally all individuals have sinned because later he states, “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man’s obedience many will be made righteous” (5:19). If Paul meant “all” were made sinners than “all” would be made righteous. In other words, all individuals would be saved! Rv 15:4 “For thou alone are holy” means that no one is as holy as God. God is the holiest being. Another passage in Rv shows this interpretation as well. God is called “Holy, holy, holy” (4:8; cf Is 6:3). “Holy, holy, holy” is another way of saying, “The holiest.” Hannah noted, “There is none holy as the Lord” (1Sm 2:2). The Bible tells us that humans can be holy just not as holy as God. For example, Noah was blameless and found favor with God (Gn 7:8-10). Elisha was holy (2 Kgs 4:9). The parents of John the Baptist were righteous in the eyes of God (Lk 1:6). I know of no passage in the Bible that says that only Jesus was sinless.

5. Mary can mediate because of the merits of her son. We are all mediators to a lesser extent because Jesus allow us to share in his mediatorship (2 Co 1:11 & 2 Th 3:1, 2).

6. Mary is not mentioned with any great reverence in the Epistles because they are about Jesus not Mary.

7. I also do not approach my friends with awe because they are not the Mother of God.

8. God can allow those in heaven to hear many prayers all at the same time (Rv 5:8 & 8:3-4).

9. Lk 11:27-28 does not negate devotion to Mary. Jesus said, “Blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it.” This certainly applies to Mary as well as to others. She heard and kept the word of God. She was not blessed just because she was Jesus’ mother. We know from the Bible that Mary was “full of grace” (Lk 1:28) and that the Holy Spirit inspired Elizabeth to shout, “Blessed are you among women” (Lk 1:42). So we dare not belittle Mary’s standing before God. “All generations will call me blessed” (Lk 1:48).

If I can be of further assistance please do not hesitate to ask.

God Bless You in Your Study,
Sal