Expert: Don - 8/27/2007

Question
QUESTION: Dramatis personae: bf & self, both 40s.  Long distance relationship, together every second w/e & talking every day, now almost 5 years.  Wear rings, long-term committment w long view - affirmed many times.  Plus 'special friend', married w 2 kids, late 30s, lives a few miles from him.  
When I got together w this man, it became obvious quickly that he was having an intense relationship with another woman - the 'special friend', SF.  She had been his 'shoulder to cry on' while he went through protracted break up three years b4. They were texting many times a day, meeting up around once a week & going for weekends together skiing, when they were also sharing a bed.  He says they have never had sex, but there were certainly snogs & cuddles aplenty at the time.  After our relationship started, he says the kissing etc stopped, but continued meeting, w/ends & daily texting.  Said they just have such a great relationship and just get on so well.  Also claims her hb is fully in the pic and absolutely doesn't mind, inc bed sharing.  I told him I wasn't happy about the whole thing.  Asked him to stop the sleeping in same bed but tried to accept that if it's a good friend he feels is good for him I had no right to interfere.  Over two years, my feeling that this was more than a friendship grew.  He told me things like that SF was deeply disapproving of his rel w me and told him all sorts of things about the way she felt I was bad for him.  At the same time, she was making lots and lots of demands of him, like that he should not come to see me when she was in bed with a fever in case she needed his help (as stated, she's got a hb & also family nearby plus many friends) - this happened at least three times that he mentioned, and he gave them as incidences of his priorities, because he did come to see me and did not do as she asked. He usually comes to see me, but on the occ.s when I visited him, it came out that each time she would give him a very hard time about not being available to her and even trying to persuade him to meet up with her - without me.  Again, he never did do so but also never did challenge her over such demands.  About two years ago, I finally checked his phone, as I knew s.th. was not right and he always flatly denied everything.  Lots of messages that showed a totally - in my view - inappropriate relationship.  Lots of sexy messages.  Lots of chastising on her part and pleas for understanding on his part. Lots of negative comments about me, and no defence of our relationship from him. Lots of things that had all the hallmarks of a full-blown affair, expressions of longing etc.  I confronted him.  He claimed that the sexy stuff was 'just part of their banter' and absolutely not serious.  He said again that they have never had sex and that he was absolutely not interested in having a 'real' relationship w her, that she was far too neurotic for that but that what they shared was really great for him and that they had great conversations etc.  I told him then that I wanted him to stop going on weekends w her and to take the verbal sexy stuff out of the relationship.  He promised he would do this.  I also promised never to look at his phone again.  Not long after this, SF started calling him every now and then when she knew he was with me - which she hadn't done before - with 'important problems' for which she needed his support.  If he didn't fulfil her expectation then by keeping the conv brief, there'd be lengthy recriminations from her by text & during meetings (he was at this point to some degree fairly open & told me lots, presumably to try and reassure me that there was nothing to worry about).  We had many discussions about how I could not cope w the nature of that relationship, and he eventually promised he would reduce the level of frequency and intensity.  They met less - or so he said - but through context I could tell that the texting was really going on in the same way.  E.g. when w me, he'd disappear into the loo w his phone & stay there for a long time, then try to replace phone in pocket w.out me seeing, and this would happen twice a day. Eventually I told him I could not cope w this any more and that I did not believe that he'd really changed the essential nature of the 'friendship' - this was based on feeling rather than knowledge. He agreed at this point that my instinct that this relationship had other dimensions was right and that he could understand that I did not like it.  He promised he would take out the flirty/sexy aspects and work on keeping the friendship part which he said he felt was valuable.  Not wanting to impose on him, I agreed.  When it came up, he'd assure me that the rel was now in acceptable boundaries. Then came x-mas 2005.  I had asked him to arrange a meeting w her & her family so that I could see for myself how things were (I had not and never have met the SF to this day).  When I arrived in his town, it became clear that he had arranged nothing.  Then she called him, at 2am! knowing full well this was his first eve w me. There ensued a lengthy phone call in which it was clear that he was being extremely defensive while she seemed to be v angry w him.  What he said had happened was that he'd suggested to her earlier that day that we should all meet up during hols where her family was due to be in a town near to where we'd be staying.  He claimed that she had understood him to be suggesting that only he and her should meet up, and not only that: that they should spend four! days skiing together while I would stay by myself.  How could she misunderstand so badly? I never got a clear answer to that.  He said he had 'not communicated clearly'. Upshot was no meeting of any kind (neither just them, or me getting to meet her), and he seemed convinced that just by not going skiing w her he'd shown his committment to me.  But during the next few days, there were endless contacts between them while they rowed over his lack ot committmetn to them and to meeting her, including at least one call he tried to keep secret but was found out, and another he insisted he 'had to' make, on Christmas Day! which lasted an hour.  After this, I was ready to break up with him.  I told him he would have to drop this relationship completely if he wanted to stay with me. Added complication: he had meanwhile become godfather to SF's second child.  So I said I accepted he had to honour this role and could continue contact w her in rel to this - babysitting and birthdays etc, but to keep contact only to the necessities of this.  After three months, it emerged he hadn't stuck to this, and that he'd lied to me repeatedly. We talked again, and he promised again that only the most basic contact around babysitting and the godchild would remain.  I tried many times throughout this to find out what it was that this woman meant to him, as the things he has said about it just don't make sense.  'Just a good friend', his fave phrase, certainly does not even begin to cover it.  We have just spent a fortnight together and I got suspicious again over his behaviour around his phone (always on silent, surrepticiously checked etc, more secret toilet sessions, a couple of clear lies where I'd seen him smuggle the phone but he denied it). At wits' end, I checked the phone again. He'd clearly erased everything up to a few days before, but what I saw showed clearly that the dynamic was as before: daily texts from him sending all manner of sexy greetings & expressions of longing.  responses from her telling him he did not truly care about her and v negative things about me & his time w me, no kindness expressed. I confronted him about it. He said I had the wrong end of the stick, that the sexy stuff was 'just part of our dynamic, not serious, you can't take it word for word, in context it's just a joke, it's just how we talk'. He did agree that he had broken his promise and that he had lied deliberately. He said he did not want to lose that relationship and had intended to gradually re-introduce the idea of it as s.th. acceptable to me over time. We did not talk about the details, because at this point I presented him with the option of ending our relationship on the spot, or dropping her completely from his life - incl the shared sports events and all contact w the godchild, sending her a text telling her he wished no more contact and deleting her numbers.  He chose the latter option.  I asked him to do the texting there and then, but he said she is now on hol in a location where she can't get texts (I checked out whether she was textable as I'd taken down her number when I checked the phone, and this at least was true - the blank I sent came back 'failed').  That was two days ago, and he left the day after, with many professions of love, committment and tenderness.  Since then, I've been sitting here wondering what to think.  Will he now stick to what he's promised?  Will he keep on lying?  As I have, in spite of many attempts, been unable to figure out for myself why he is so attached to this relationship, I find it hard to gauge what to think about all this.  I feel confused, cheated and angry.  There is no question about this man's committment to our relationship on all other levels: he's invested huge amounts of time and money to be with me, he is tender, supportive, understanding, kind, and incredibly good fun to be with as well.  I love him deeply. But it seems as if there is a part of his personality that is completely split off in this respect.  I would love to know what this looks like from the outside, and what a man's perspective might be on this.  Will he continue this 'game' he's playing with the SF? He knows for certain that this is his very last chance, and that if I discover that any more conact at all occurs after this, that will really be the end.  Any advice and opinions would be so welcome.

ANSWER: Of course he will continue the playing the game with SF, why wouldn't he. You've told him on numerous occasions that his involvement with her is effecting your relationship in a negative way, but yet he still has contact with her, that should tell you that he's never going to stop having contact with her no matter what you say.

I could see if this was the first time, he promised this or even the second but according to you, this situation has been going on for several years, why would you think that all of a sudden he's going stop being involved with this woman in ways you don't think are appropriate.

You've threatened to leave him in the past but have never done it, so by now he figures you never will. So I'm sure he's thinking why should he stop doing whatever he wants with SF, if he knows you aren't really going do anything to stop him anyway.

He doesn't want to stop being involved with SF and he won't stop no matter what you do or say, apparently he doesn't really care how she effects the relationship the two of you have together or he would have cut her off by now.

It's time for you to open your eyes and understand that your boyfriend is lying to you and is never going to stop dealing with SF. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll be able to make a choice, to either deal with his relationship with SF or move on and find another man because he's already shown you time and time again, that she is going to be apart of his life whether you like it or not.

Also on a quick side note, I wouldn't believe that he and SF have never had a sexual relationship. I've had many female friends in the past as I'm sure you have had male friends and sexual conversations aren't usually apart of just friends regular conversation. Sex talks that happen frequently are usually with people who are either having sex or have had sex, not just with those who are just friends.

It's time for you to take a good look at your boyfriend and this relationship to see if it's the right thing for you, because SF doesn't appear to be going anywhere, it's time for you to decide if you're going to be the one that has to leave him alone because she isn't going to leave him alone and apparently he has no intentions of making her leave him alone.

I hope this helped and good luck.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for your clear and non-judgmental advice.  Here is a follow-up, with a request for more of your opinions.  I had a long talk - by phone - w bf tonight.  Aim: to see whether he would follow on from his promise to end all contact w SF. Managed to remain calm, together and not crying except for one yelling outburst.  It emerged that he had lied to me even more than I had thought in the months since his last promise, and that he also texted her again since the matter came to a head on Saturday.  He figures his lies were 'in a good cause', namely to maintain his rel w SF until he could 'make me see' there was nothing bad in it but lots of good. He feels strongly that their erotic banter is only 'playful' and 'a part of their relationship dynamic', 'completely harmless' and has nothing to do w real life.  I do not buy this. He said he would not lie to me any more, that it was a relief to stop. Then lied some more later on, but I ferreted out the truth.  Confronted again and again with the only choice: 'give her up, or accept that I'll be out of your life', he repeatedly agreed to give her up, only to renege moments later by saying it would 'never work' because they are so closely involved socially (joint sportsclub, joint acquaintances, godchild).  I just kept on telling him that he had had every opp to keep all of that and also the friendship - if only he had taken the emotional unfaithfulness out and otherwise followed up on his promises, that now it was either/or, w no other choice at all.  He kept going back and forth between promising and then saying 'it can't work'.  He seems very preoccupied with his reputation in public - the sports club associates, his work colleagues, and what they would think, what rumours might be around, how his 'reputation would be ruined'.  Just how this would be ruined he did not clarify (I can't see it myself).  I acknowledged how painful giving up his involvement in the sports club would be, and that it is a huge thing to ask to give up the godparent responsibility (then suggested he could open a bank book for her and save money there for her at birthdays and x-mas, thus meeting said duties to some degree).  I kept reiterating that I do not see this as a form of punishment but that his previous actions have shown that he is incapable of keeping his relations w SF to any acceptable bounds and that breaking off all connection is therefore the only solution - if he wants to keep his relationship w me, and that even then it is definitely damaged goods and we'd have a long road of mistrust and recovery ahead of us.  He took turns between accepting that, feeling sorry for himself (acknowledged as much when I said so), and going back to 'why should I give up a wonderful friendship, this is about my life'.  He flatly denied that there is anything wrong with the erotic banter between them, agreed that it was all about ego-stroking and made them both feel good, but failed to see what could be wrong with it 'as long as you (ie myself) don't get hurt'.  Finds it very hard to accept that it does hurt me, even though I've told him dozens of times before, and that it hurts even when he thinks I don't know.  Accepts that it 'looks bad' when seen from my perspective, but still maintains there's nothing wrong with it.  Accepts that the bottom line is still my call: take it or leave it.  Conv took four hours, by end of which he had switched sides five times but ended up by saying he'd 'try', and that we would talk again in the morning (he was on the point of falling asleep by then, small hours, and I could see that there was no way I could squeeze a final committment out of him).  So, overall, managed to clarify exactly what I mean by a complete split, incl. no more contact until he sends - in my presence - a final cut-her-off message, and complete break w anything connected to her life, including giving up a chunk of his social life.  He in turn had given up trying to clamour for a 'workable compromise' by the end.  What happens tomorrow, we'll see.  I think he did go to bed understanding that if he doesn't commit to this 100% then he'll not have a girlfriend any more.  Question: if he does, as I now expect, commit to all the necessary pruning, what do you think the chances are that he will stick to this over the longer term?  If he does commit, I will try and arrange one or more one-off counselling sessions w him (remember, it's long-distance, so hard to do).  I am under no illusion that even if he does make the break, and for good (assume the SF would cold-shoulder him after a final message as I envisage it), he will certainly always remain a liar, but hopefully not get so emotionally involved w anyone else in future. He will always flirt, but as long as that is in 'safe' bounds I don't mind. I am not hopeful about the long-term outcome, but... I'd appreciate an honest opinion.
ANSWER: I think his chances of sticking to the commitment of not being in contact with SF are slim to none. Just the fact that it took four hours of talking to him, just to get him to agree to it should show you that he doesn't really want to do it.

Plus the fact that you are in a long distance relationship means that there is no real way for you to make sure he isn't in contact with her. He could talk to her or text message her every single day and you'd never really know because you don't see him everyday.

Like I said before, he's not going to just up and stop talking to her after years and years of being in contact with her, and unless you really break up with him this time, he has no real reason to believe that you will if he keeps talking to her because he's heard that same thing from you before and yet he still has both you and her in his life.

I don't want you to get your hopes down because anything is possible and he just might never talk to SF again, but from what you have told me about their relationship and your prior attempts for him to stop their communication, chances are he'll never totally cut her out of his life.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Just a follow-up, for any other women (or men) out there in comparable situations.  No, he never did admit to actual sex, but changed his mind again about breaking it off with the SF and preferred to see our relationship end.  Many tears, many promises that 'there must be another way'. More lies came out as well, and in hindsight I am sure there was much more still (only admitting as much as you know has already been found out.  Conclusion: if someone cheats and lies, even if 'just' emotionally, they are unfaithful.  It's not worth giving it another and another and another go.  Not for me, anyway, not any more. Thanks for the earlier advice, it helped steel me against his pleas and assurances, and sharpened my ear for the selfishness inherent in his take on the story.  Cue violins, as she walks steadfast forward into a lonely, lie-free future...

Answer
Hey I'm sorry that it had to come to this and I know it's sad but at least now, this opens you up to go out and find a relationship that will work for you.

This one is ending but just take what you learned from this relationship and apply it to your next one and hopefully you'll have better results.

Good luck