Expert: Bart Ogden - 10/19/2009

Question
QUESTION: I recently had a stone fireplace built outdoors as part of a paver patio installation. The fireplace is made out of cut wall type stones made by the same company (unilock) that the pavers are made by. The firebox is 33" wide by 34" high and about 28"deep and is lined with firebrick. The chimney is made of the same stones with clay flue tiles that are 8" x 8" and is about 3.5 ft tall. There is a 1/2" steel plate that has the 8 x 8 hole in it and this plate carries the weight of the stones on top that surround the flue tiles. The 8 X 8 hole 8is near the back of the firebox. We have only had a couple fires but the smoke rolls out of the front of the fireplace more then what goes up the chimney. SOme does go up but a lot rolls out the front. WHen I researched on the internet I learned that for the size of the firebox (1122 sq. inches) I should have atleast 10% flue opening which I do not so I am thinking I need a bigger hole. AM I correct? and if so what size flue would you use (13 x 13, 13 x 18, 18 x 18) ??
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. It looks real nice but I guess I should have had a mason build the fireplace versus the landscape guy.
Frank Clemente


ANSWER: Hi Frank,

That fireplace will never work properly.

You must have at least a 1318 flue tile system installed to have any chance of success with that fireplace.

Thanks for using AllExperts.Com and good luck with your project.

Sincerely,
A. Bart Ogden, President
Home Safe Hearth & Chimney, Inc.
Wichita, KS
Voice 316-265-9828
Fax 316-265-9890
www.HomeSafeKS.com

CSIA Certified Chimney Sweep #2653
CSIA Certified Dryer Exhaust Technician #10
NFI Certified Wood Specialist
NFI Certified Gas Specialist
NFI Certified Pellet Specialist
NFI Master Hearth Professional
NCSG Technical Advisory Council Member

Advice given is general in nature. Local laws and ordinances may govern and/or supersede the information and recommendations provided. Final determinations are the responsibility of a local professional with first-hand knowledge of the situation, and the AHJ.

Note: Dissemination, distribution or copying of any part of this email or its attachments is prohibited without the expressed permission of the sender.




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I bought 13 x 18 flue tiles and my landscape contractor is going to install them and make the hole in the plate larger obviously to accommodate the larger tiles. Are there any other suggestions you might have since I am rebuilding the top portion of the fireplace? Thanks in advance,

ANSWER: Hi Frank,

Go to www.bia.org and click on technical notes 19, 19A and 19B.  If you really want that fireplace to have a better chance to work, the internals of it need to be different.

Make a nice smooth transition from the lintel to the flue tile.  Keep the back wall straight and transition right up into the flue tile. Make sure the flue tile starting point is about 24" above the fireplace opening.

You really might want to consider hiring a fireplace builder, not a lansdcape contractor for this.  It's not a simple as people think to get a fireplace, let alone and outdoor fireplace, to work correctly.  

Thanks for using AllExperts.Com and good luck with your project.

Sincerely,
A. Bart Ogden, President
Home Safe Hearth & Chimney, Inc.
Wichita, KS
Voice 316-265-9828
Fax 316-265-9890
www.HomeSafeKS.com

CSIA Certified Chimney Sweep #2653
CSIA Certified Dryer Exhaust Technician #10
NFI Certified Wood Specialist
NFI Certified Gas Specialist
NFI Certified Pellet Specialist
NFI Master Hearth Professional
NCSG Technical Advisory Council Member

Advice given is general in nature. Local laws and ordinances may govern and/or supersede the information and recommendations provided. Final determinations are the responsibility of a local professional with first-hand knowledge of the situation, and the AHJ.

Note: Dissemination, distribution or copying of any part of this email or its attachments is prohibited without the expressed permission of the sender.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks so much for the quick reply. I will check out the website and notes you referenced. It will be a smooth transition to the flue tile at the back as thats how it is now but I may have a problem getting 24" from the top of the opening to the flue as its a pretty short chimney all together. The steel plate allows me to stack stones so that it looks like a fireplace, etc. but that prevents me from having much height above the sireoplace opening. From your note I take it outdoor fireplaces are hard to get to work properly? Is that because being outside its harder to get them to draft correctly? Thanks again - I will contact a fireplace contractor as you suggest.

Answer
Hi Frank,

Yes, outdoor fireplaces are problematic at best if improperly designed.

The height should be appx 12-15' tall to establish a sufficient draft and to keep the smoke out of your guest area.

Thanks for using AllExperts.Com and good luck with your project.

Sincerely,
A. Bart Ogden, President
Home Safe Hearth & Chimney, Inc.
Wichita, KS
Voice 316-265-9828
Fax 316-265-9890
www.HomeSafeKS.com

CSIA Certified Chimney Sweep #2653
CSIA Certified Dryer Exhaust Technician #10
NFI Certified Wood Specialist
NFI Certified Gas Specialist
NFI Certified Pellet Specialist
NFI Master Hearth Professional
NCSG Technical Advisory Council Member

Advice given is general in nature. Local laws and ordinances may govern and/or supersede the information and recommendations provided. Final determinations are the responsibility of a local professional with first-hand knowledge of the situation, and the AHJ.

Note: Dissemination, distribution or copying of any part of this email or its attachments is prohibited without the expressed permission of the sender.