Expert: Randy Brooks - 2/6/2009

Question
QUESTION: Hi Randy: I have several questions for you, perhaps you can help. I have a colonial house built in the 60's. My chimney has always had an issue where smoke sometimes comes into my living room. It doesn't happen all the time but when one of the logs starts to smoke up then some of the smoke comes in. It can get a little annoying because it happens often. My damper is as open as I can get it to open. In addition, I've had an issue with a lot of cold air coming in through the chimney so I decided to put a top lock damper, the one that installs at the top of the chimney. The damper has helped a lot but,

1. Is it normal that I really have to pull really really hard on the chain to close the damper that is attached to the cap? I saw an online video and they make it look like it's very easy.

2. When the chimmey sweep guy installed the top lock damper he completely unhinged the throat damper because he said the cord for the lock top damper needed to be free so that it could be pulled. Is it ok that they guy took off the throat damper? Or does this damper work in unison with the damper at the top of the chimney?

3.  Although I'm seeing an improvement in terms of drafts coming in to my living room, I am now having another problem...it appears that now that the throat damper has been removed, the fire burns really fast, the flame is raging and the logs are consumed VERY quickly. Is this normal due to the lack of the throat damper? Is there any way to make the fire burn a little slower?

4.  Is it normal for my fireplace glass doors and frame to get very hot? The bricks around the frame also get very hot, is this normal or can this cause a fire

5. My fireplace box has built up a lot of soot on the walls, is there any way to clean that brick so that it doesn't look black.

Sorry for all the questions. On a final note I have to tell you that in trying to get a reputable company to install my damper, I contacted someone from the csia.org website...what a mistake that was. The guy had the nerve to install a locktop damper that was the wrong size. When I contacted him to tell him I was feeling an even bigger draft, he seemed bothered but my husband and I had gone up the chimney to confirm his bad job. There was a big gap of about a quarter of an inch all around the damper. I couldn't believe that he had the nerve to do such a bad job. Then he said he had fixed it but my husband went back up the chimney to make sure it was making a tight seal and sure enough it wasn't. We made him adjust it, but I just wanted to tell the story so that other people don't get ripped off.  

I wish I could report him, what he did was wrong. Not everyone can go up the ladder to check the chimney to make sure the job was done right!

ANSWER: Yvette,

1) It can be hard to pull the chain, especially if the spring is new.

2) Probably best that the original damper was removed. No, they don't work in unison.

3) Your old damper may have been restrictive or had provided a smaller passage for the smoke. This will slow the burn and also cause smoke entry into the living area. The new top damper is probably working well fully open, but you may be able to slightly close it, provided you have no smoke entry and see if this helps.

4) Ideally, the doors are open during operation of the fireplace. If they are open and the frame is getting hot, the doors may be too small for your fireplace, meaning that the frame minimizes the opening too much.

5) Not really. The glass doors may have something to do with the excessive build up.

Concerning the CSIA, I am the President of the CSIA. You certainly can file an ethics complaint at CSIA.org as we certainly do not condone what you have described. Additional, I would recommend that you have a qualified inspector perform an NFPA-211 level II inspection of your system. You may use the links at the bottom of my home page at brooks-hearth.com, to find a qualified inspector in your area. I hope I have answered all of your questions. Thank you for asking and best of luck with the level II inspection. Don't be discouraged with CSIA we have hundreds of very qualified folks to help with all of your needs.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks for your quick response Randy! The damper, now that it has been sealed properly seems to be helping with drafts. However, in regards to the fireplace glassdoor frame getting hot, I imagine that as you said it's because the frame covers about 2 inches of the opening on all sides. However, when I measured it, the medium size fireplace doors fit the measurements. In hindsight I should have probably gone for the larger size so that my fireplace opening would not have been restricted at all. If the frame is getting really hot, is this a firehazard? or are these frames built to withstand such heat. Can the heat over time, ruin my new frame? The insulation provided with the frame, is this insulation to protect the frame from getting hot or is it to prevent the cold from coming in when the chimeny is not in use or both?

Can you also please explain the difference between creosote and soot and can any one of these start a fire in my chimeny stack? Also wanted to know if all chimneys are required by code to have a liner. For example, if my house was built in the 60's was the code back then that the builder had to insert a liner? What is the main purpose of a liner? What are the dangers of not having a liner and how expensive can it be to put a liner in an already built (and old) chimney?

By the way, when I use the chimney my fireplace doors are always fully opened as I know that the glass can shatter if I close them with a full fire burning. It just bugs me a bit that the frame gets so hot. My old frame, probably the original from when the house was built in the 60's did not get as hot. Also, the bricks surrounding the hearth also get very hot, is this normal? I love using my chimney but I don't want this frame to start a fire! Am I worrying too much?

Again, thanks for your time!

Answer
Yvette,

Glass doors come in varying degrees of quality. Many that are easily affordable offer an adjustable range of applications like 36" - 42" inches wide, by 24" - 32" inches high. The higher end or more costly doors are custom fit and work much better.

A hot frame is typical, and can certainly burn someone. As a fire hazard, there must be combustible trim, mantel or other wood paper etc. in proximity. The insulation is provided to achieve a tight fit to the veneer and not let smoke escape the frame.



Creosote is the result of incomplete combustion. Creosote is extremely flammable and this is why you should have your flue inspected yearly and swept if necessary. Soot is the earliest form of creosote accumulation.

Flue liners and or required thickness of lining materials like firebrick have been required for over 80 years. Your chimney is included in that frame.

The liner is to contain the products of combustion and convey them safely to the outside of your home. Cost will depend on many factors in your home and I would not speculate on any of them.

You really must invest in the NFPA-211, level II inspection I recommended last post. This will answer all your concerns. Be certain to know the scope and definition of a level II inspection prior to calling and make certain that your selection performs these inspections. Good luck.