About Dr. Jay Forrest Expertise I can answer any question dealing with mysticism, such as questions concerning the awakening call, the purgative way, the illuminative way, the unitive way, spiritual experiences, spiritual direction, spiritual disciplines, prayer, ecstasy, the rule of life, internal monasticism, asceticism, mystical theology, devotional helps, chanting, meditation, contemplation, hesychasm, kabbalah, sufi, tao, zen, theosophy, and more.
Experience
Dr. Jay Forrest is an ardent student of mysticism in all the major religions of the world (Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam). Jay was a Pentecostal/Charismatic minister for over 20 years, pastoring churches in Wisconsin, Missouri, Tennessee, Arizona, and New Mexico. He is the author over over 150 articles and poems and several books. He holds a doctorate in ministry from Trinity Institute.
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Why do you think it is that only a handful of people in any given age realizes the importance of going deeply within?
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Hi Ed,
I wish I knew. It is a mystery to me. You would think that many would want to know God first hand. But then I remember Israel's response at Mt Sinai:
"Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off. 19 Then they said to Moses, You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
20 And Moses said to the people, Do not fear; for God has come to test you, and that His fear may be before you, so that you may not sin. 21 So the people stood afar off, but Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was" (Exodus 20:18-21).
And so the majority still stands "afar off." It is the lonely pilgrim that travels into the thick darkness of unknowing. Here it seems that fear keeps people from approaching God. But fear of what? Do they fear God is His justice? That may be part of it.
If I may venture a guess, I would say the fear that keeps people afar off is the fear of seeing themselves as they really are. To have the layers of self-deceit striped away and to be completely naked before God is a horrifying experience. I remember my own undoing, where God made me face myself as I really am. "O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"
If is the fear of letting go of the false self that hinders us. We cling to our identity as we where, the olf self. The cloud of unknowing talks about approaching God without our safe ideas, concepts, and images. We must come near to a God that is not safe. Drawing near to God is not safe. It will cost you everything you have, and everything you are. The purgative way is the striping off of the old man - dispositions, habits, passions, and ideas. It is safe to say that the God we image is not God, but a poor shadow of the Real thing.
For those who have experience the Real thing, we desire more. We are always finding, yet always seeking. The ocean of God is infinite, and so our journey is endless. Oh, but the joy is unspeakable.
May God bless your journey with the peace that passes understand. May our lives draw others to seek what is the most important thing in this life - knowing God.
Could it be that Christ was really trying to teach us to go within? (Gnosticism)and unenlightened followers, who couldn't understand the concept, instead created a religion of worship? Could things have gone terribly off track like that? Maybe the second coming of Christ (Christ meaning enlightened one?) is not an individual, but a new consciousness of many enlightened people?
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Hi Ed,
I think that that is the very answer that Gnosticism was trying to convey. The answer lies with - in the knowledge of your inner divinity.
Traditional Christianity would not be comfortable with the termonology, but ultimately the answer is to know oneself. The Eastern Orthodox church talk a lot about deification, though not in the same way as the Gnostics.
Thank you for you insight. May we be truly enlightened with the consciousness of the Christ of God.
Jay
Hello Jay,
Thank you for your insightful answers. I was formerly a Thai Therevada Buddhist monk, and you, a Christian, and yet we are communicating beautifully. Going within seems to be a foreign concept to many Christians, it looks like to me. Do you think that if the importance of what we are talking about, knowing oneself, could be communicated to the faithful, then perhaps the historical conflicts resulting from hardened beliefs (which are happening as we speak; Muslim – Christian - Hindu - Buddhist) could be ended, by people simply going within? Going within seems to transcend belief, while at the same time does not disparage beliefs. It (going within, meditation, contemplative prayer) could be the universal common thread that connects all of our humanness, rather than seperate us as doctrinism seems to do.
Best......e
Answer Hi Ed,
Yes, I think we would all be better off if we focused on the mystical elements within our respective religions. Far too many Christians are concerned with proving that they are right, rather than living a life of love and peace. As a Christian I don't feel it is my place to judge a person in another religion. As Paul said, "For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside?" (1 Corinthians 5:12).
If all religious people where faithful to their faith in the inner man, there would be less intolerance. The key, as you know, is to become enlightened. As the Tevigga Sutta says concerning an enlightened one, "Putting away all judgment of others, he abstains from slander.... he is a peacemaker, a lover of peace, impassioned for peace, a speaker of words that make for peace. Putting away all bitter thoughts, he abstains from harsh language.... He speaks only when it is appropraite for him to speak, words that are profitable, well restained, well defined, full of wisdom." (A Buddhist Bible, p. 70).
It may seem contradictory, but the more firmly you believe in your faith the less defensive you become. I am have complete certitude in my faith in Jesus Christ, therefore I do not need to attack someone elses faith to boost mine. I don't need to be right, because I know I am where I need to be in my journey with God. And i am also enlighten enough to know that I don't know where others need to be.
My calling is to help Christian become confident in their faith so that they live it, instead of just talking about it. The Dali Lama once said that Christianity is a wonderful religion of words. I confess that we are all too fond of substituting words for actions.
Can we transcend beliefs? I don't believe we can. We need a map to explore the inner realms of the heart. There are real dangers that need to be guarded against. That is why we need a spiritual guide.
William James wrote a book on Religious Experiences where he argues that there is a common thred of mysticism that runs through all major religions. He may be right.
I am not sure the unity of religions is the answer. I don't believe that one can faithfully follow Christ and mix it with other beliefs. For example, Christians believe in resurrection, while Buddhists believe in reincarnation. These beliefs are mutually exclusive.
No, I believe that the answer is tolerance and understanding. And even further, I believe that the answer is to be faithful to the deeper aspects of our faiths. Islam has the Sufi, the Judaism has the Kabbalists, the Buddhists have the Bodhisattva, and the Christian has its mystics. All are on the path to enlightenment; all seek to leave the ego centered life and become centered in love.
My desire is to call my fellow Christian to this deeper life. We have enough problem within our own faith, without attacking other's faith. We are divided a thousand times over, each fighting against the other. We need to get our house together and get the log out of our own eye first.
I ask that you forgive us Christians for our ignorance and short sightedness. Thanks again for sharing.
