Expert: Marco B. - 9/14/2007

Question
QUESTION: How omnipotent is God?  There are three main definitions of omnipotence that God could have.

1) TOTAL: Complete omnipotence of past, present, and future.
2) CURRENT: Complete omniptence of past and present, but not future.
3) FOCUS: No omnipotence except for only when and where God observes.

I would defer to CURRENT-omnipotence or FOCUS-omnipotence, both similar to human sensing.

Why?

1) we are made in God's image, and just as we can't see the future, but can guide it and guess it, and know the past to some degree, so must God be.

2) God created Satan and made Him his throne guarding cherub, but why would God put a being there He knows will attemt to take His throne in the future and draw away His children, and promulgating suffering in this age.

3) God changes dispensations to adapt to the flow of human culture over time.  First God gives us a garden, one rule, and puts Satan in the garden.  If God is TOTAL-omnipotent, this is a "setup" built to test humans to a certain failure.  Another time, God gave us the law as a schoolmaster, but later removes the law and says all are dead according to the law.  Another "setup" built to test humans to a certain failure.

4) God creates all souls from unrepentant murderers to gentle souls.  If God were TOTAL-omnipotent, then He wouldn't have to have the soul pass through this age at all, but simply not create the soul that will fail, and keep the soul that will non fail, and put the passsing ones together on a free happy world under God.  But for all accounts, it appears we pass through this suffering world with unknown salvation and everyone dying sinners, unless *this* is a great deception under a TOTAL-omnipotent God.

However, in the past, I have heard God often called TOTAL-omnipotent, which contradicts my small unomnipotent intuition, so another perspective would help.

Thank you.

ANSWER: Dear Sean,

I firmly believe that God is TOTALLY omnipotent.
In fact, time is only a human limit and God lives "out of time". He knows past, present and future.

The fact that we are made in God's image is irrilevant as far as omnipotence is concerned. In fact we are not omnipotent at all. God is infinitely superior to us. We are in God's image because we have intelligence and the capacity  to love; but this has nothing to do with omnipotence.

Why God has put man to the test if He already knew man would have failed?
Because man need to understands his own limits; through the falure man undertands who is really is and how much he needs God's help to be saved from a sinful and meaningless existence.


Why God created Satan and the souls who go to Hell, if
He already knew everything?

God loves us infinitely and He desires to lead each of us to the eternal life  and to the true happiness. But God is perfectly Holy and Good; God cannot tolerate evil because evil is uncompatible with His good and holy nature.
So, we cannot go to heaven as long as we are not completely purified from our sins and sanctified.
Our sanctifcation is necessary for us to go to heaven.
God desires to sanctify us, but He has given us a free-will, so God needs our consent in order to purify and sanctify us. God respects our choices and therefore God cannot santify those who do not want to be sanctified and purified, those who do not want to stop sinning, those who do not want to live a holy life.
These are those who go to hell.
The fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will yield a true and deep love for God.
God knows that the fear of eternal punishment is sometimes the only means to induce some sinners to repentance and conversion. So the salvation of these souls justifies the eternal punishment of those souls who refuse to repent and be converted. In other words, without an eternal punishment, fewer souls would be saved.
Therefore the existence of an eternal suffering in Hell is justified as an instrument to induce more men to repent and therefore be saved.

Why did Jesus have to suffer on the Cross?

I think this is the most impostant question!

I believe that each of us needed know that God was willing to accept such a terrible suffering for us, in order to really trust God. Every man needed that proof of love, and God, who knew this, has accepted to give him what man consciously or unconsciously asked to Him. Jesus had to suffer and die that way to convince us about God's goodness and God's love towards us. It is man's obstinate distrust against God that has forced God to give man that proof of love, the proof he needed to trust God. By His death on the cross, Jesus destroys our distrust and our doubts, and He gives us the strength to believe in Him and trust Him. This means that each of us is personally responsible of Jesus ' sufferings and death. This distrust, this lack of faith in God is just the essence of the original sin. Christ's Passion has reconciled us to God because it has uprooted from our heart, our distrust and doubts about God; it has satisfied our (conscious or unconscious) desire and need of a proof of love, so that it has given us the strength to trust God and feel loved by Him. I can summarize my thoughts as follows: Salvation implies a deep change of ourselves. God has the power to change us but He wants to do that with our consent. Man cannot really accept to be changed by God and he cannot be in comunion with God as long as even a shadow of doubt and distrust remains in his heart ( it must be stressed that such a distrust may exist even without the man is aware of it, at the unconscious level). God had to destroy every shadow of doubt and distrust in our heart and He has chosen to give us the greatest proof of love that may exist: Christ's Passion.


I would like to give you here some consideration about the church.

Who has the authority to interpret correctly the Bible and to teach correctly Jesus' teachings?

Only a person who knows and understands what Jesus taught can teach what Jesus taught.
So, who are the persons who really know Jesus' teachings?
Many think they are teaching what Jesus taught, but they teach different doctrines, therefore it is evident that they are teaching only their opinions, because Jesus cannot contradicts Himself.

Jesus gave the commandment to teach the Gospel ONLY to His disciples and He NEVER gave this commandment to the crowds; this clearly proves that not all can teach the Gospel, but only those who have been taught and sent (directly or indirectly) by Jesus.

How did the Church's mission  pass to each generation?
The Bible explains this to us.

Acts 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples to them, and said, It is not right that we should neglect the word of God to serve tables.
6:3 Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
6:4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
6:5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch.
6:6 These they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

The apostolic mission is passed to other people directly from the apostoles.

Acts 14:19 And certain Jews came from Antioch and Iconium, who, having persuaded the people, stoned Paul, and dragged him out of the city, supposing he was dead.
14:20 Yet, as the disciples stood around him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.
14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had made disciples of many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
14:22 Strengthening the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying that through much tribulation we must enter the kingdom of God.
14:23 And when they had appointed elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they committed them to the Lord, in whom they believed.

Again it is Paul (who in his turn received the apostolic mission with the laying of hands, see Acts 9:15-19) who appoints the elders.

1 Timothy 4:14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was conferred on you through the prophetic word with the imposition of hands of the presbyterate.
2 Timothy 1:6 For this reason, I remind you to stir into flame the gift of God that you have through the imposition of my hands.

Paul writes clearly that the presbyterate is received with the imposition of hands.

The prespityters in their turn, appointed other people:

2 Timothy 2:2 And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.

Christ founded His Church 2000 years ago; He ordered the apostoles to teach His Word, and they appointed other people, who in their turn appointed other people, etc.  so that the apostolic mission has lasted until our days.
This is the catholic Church, which receives its apostolic mission form Christ and teach the true teachings of Christ, as they were given to the apostoles.
There is an historical connection between the present catholic church and the church founded by Christ 2000 years ago, while there is no historical connection between the many protestant denominations and the church of Christ.
In fact Christ never appeared to Luther or Calvin, etc.; Christ never authorized Luther to found a new church and to teach his opinions as if they were inspired by the Holy Spirit.
All the apostoles did many powerful miracles which proved that they were really sent by Christ, but Luther did no miracle in order to prove that his interpretations were really inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The protestant churches teaches many sinful doctrines, for example that divorce and remarriage are permissible, that abortion is permissible (some denominations), etc.

Mt 16:18 And I say also to you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
16:19 And I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The Church is "the pillar and ground of the truth" (1Tm 3:15)

These two verses are sufficient to prove that the Church of Christ teaches infallibly the truth.
Christ founded His church 2000 years ago and He assured us that the gates of Hell  shall not prevail against His Church. The Bible assures us that the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth.
If the protestant churches were the church of Christ (which one among thousends of different denominations?), it would mean that Jesus lied when He said that the gates of Hell would have not prevail against His church and that the Bible is wrong when it says that the Church is the pillar of the truth.
In fact, before 1500 dC there were only the catholic church and the eastern orthodox church.
Since both the catholic church and the orthodox church teach  doctrines such as prayer for the dead, prayers to saints, etc. if protestants were right, this would imply that the church founded by Jesus 2000 years ago had been defeated by Satan for about 1500 years.
Christ spent more than three years with His disciples and taught them; How is it possible that Jesus' teachings were forgotten and replaced with sinful teachings for about 1500 years?
All the people who lived during those centuries would have been induced to sin by the church founded by Christ; it is absurd that a loving Father would have allowed this to happen, and this would have certainly meant that the gates of Hell had prevaled against the church of Christ, in contradiction with His own words.
Christ cannot contradict Himself; if Christ has taught through His Church certain doctrines for 1500 years, these doctrines cannot be considered sinful.

Besides, only to Peter Jesus gave the keys of the kingdom of heaven; this proves that Jesus gave Peter a special role in the Church ; this is sufficent to prove Peter’s supremacy. Consider that the very first act done by Jesus after founding His Church, is to give Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven ; there is then a fundamental relation between these keys and the Church. After Peter's death in Rome, who has received the keys of the kingdom of heaven? I think that the most logical answer is: Peter's successor in Rome, the Pope.
The special role of Peter still exist in the Church of Christ, and it is the role of Peter's successor, the Pope. This special role allow christians to identify with certainty the only true Church of Christ. There is in fact an historical continuity between Peter and the present Pope, the apostolic succession.

Protestants usually think that their interpretations are inspired by the Holy Spirit ; but they are divided in  thousends of different denominations and they have different interpretations.
Since the Holy Spirit cannot contradicts Himself, it is evident that their interpretations are only fallible human opinions.
In fact, when Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit, He was speaking directly to the apostoles only, and NOT to the crowds. John 16 :12-13"I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.”
Jesus NEVER made this promise to the crowds, but ONLY to the Apostoles when they were TOGETHER WITH PETER. Therefore you cannot  generalize this promise to every christian; this verse can be applied ONLY to the bishops (the apostoles' successors) when they are together with the Pope (Peter's successor).
I believe that God loves us; it follows that God has not abandoned us to our fallible human interpretations and opinions.
Through the prophets, God prepared the Jews (even if only some of them) to receive Christ; Christ remained with His disciples for about three years and half and taught them all the necessary moral and spirital knowledges for our salvation, so that in their turn they could teach others, who in their turn could teach others, etc.
In this way the teachings of Christ has spread throughout the world and the centuries through His Church, the catholic Church.
A loving Father would never abandon His children to their human and fallible opinions.
A loving Father would certainly give His children a “guide” so that they could receive His holy and good teachings.
This “guide” is the Catholic Church, the Church founded by Christ 2000 years ago.


Usually protestants say that the catholic church has been corrupted :
If this were true, it would mean that Jesus was a lier, because He said that the gates of Hell would have not prevailed agaisnt His church.
The truth is that corrupted men have been present within the church since the very beginning (Judas was one of the apostoles), but the church was never corrupted because its teachings were always good.
Judas was sent by Jesus to teach the Gospel, to heal the sick, to cast demons (see Mt 10 :1-8)
The fact that there were men within the church who commited grave sins, does not mean that the church is corrupted.
Every man is responsible of his own sins, but the church is a divine institution and is above its human members and its doctrine is divine.
The fact that Judas was corrupted does not mean that church of Christ was corrupted.

Usually protestants believe in the Sola Scriptura principle, but there is  in this case no verse in the Bible which establishes this principle. This is then a striking contradiction of protestantism.
The Bible did not come down from the sky one day.
The biblical canon was established by a Concilium of catholic bishops three centuries after Christ, and so the christian communities lived for three centuries without the New Testament.
Jesus never wrote anything, which clearly proves that the christian faith cannot be founded on a book.
Jesus founded a Church , and NOT a book.
Jesus chose to found a living Church, a living and visible guide for all christians, to help them to understand the Truth.
Jesus is still the head of the Church and He still leads His Church.
Jesus still teaches and guides us through His living Church, the Catholic Church.
The Bible says that “The Church is the pillar and  bulwark of the truth” (1Timothy 3 :15).
Jesus gave the Church the authority of binding and loosing (Mt. 18 :17-18).
Jesus never wrote anything ; the New Testament has been produced by the Church, and the Church still produces writings to teach us the spirital and moral Truth.
The same Holy Spirit Who inspired the authors of the Bible, still leads the Magisterium of the Church in its apostolic mission.
The Cathechism contains the official teachings of the Church, and it is to be considered inspired by the Holy Spirit.
You can find the Cathechism on line at

www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html

I think that faith cannot come only from logic, because to have faith in God means to trust and love God.
I think however that logics and science prove the existence of our soul and the existence of  God and that there are many rational arguments strongly supporting the christian faith.
The explanation of these aguments is rather long and Allexperts allows only to give short answers. You can find such arguments  in the following site

http://xoomer.alice.it/fedeescienza/englishnf.html

where  I analyse the incongruencies of the materialistic conception of the mind, on the basis of our present scientific knowledges about brain and matter.
This analysis points out how the laws of physics  prove that the   brain cannot generate consciousness, which existence implies  the presence in man of a unbiological/unmaterial element. The problem of consciousness is then strictly connected to the one of the existence of the soul and, consequently, the existence of God.
In the first article entitled “Mind and brain...” you can find a general discussion of the mind and brain problem from a scientific point of view.
In the second article entitled “Scientific contraddictions in materialism”
you  can find an explanation of the fundamental inconsistencies of  the  typical arguments used by materialists, such as the concept of emergent, macroscopic or holist property, complexity, information, etc.
In the section called “FAQ: answers to  visitors' questions” you can find the answer to many typical questions, such as "Are there any scientifically proved miracles?", "Does the existence of the universe imply the existence of God?", "Can science explain God?", "Can science establish which is the true religion?", "Can science explain consciousness in the future?", and many others.


I hope this may help you.
If you should need some clarifications, please ask again.

Your brother in Christ,

Marco


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Your personal exposition of church history and thinking, here, is interesting, please continue.  I hope my own engineering background writing (or allexperts) doesn't limit your exposition.

I would say, though, there are some good words for sola scriptura.  If you consider God founded the Word, Jesus is the living Word, and Jesus founded the church, whose body is the believers, including teachers, interpreters, etc., all of them with the Word, in lieu of Jesus’ immediate presence, as the living Word.

Because words or logos lose meaning when handled by most humans, the printed word of the best books is used to hold a certain specific place, preserved better than anything else, even better than a church which can drift away in time (e.g. Rev 2:20-21: problems with Thyatira, Rev 2:14-17 Pergamos has bad doctrine).  The Word holds a place to be held by the living Word to come, Jesus.  This sounds more positive and unifying to the body.

Now, after reviewing your answer and history, I still find conflict in how omnipotent God is.  There are three current definitions of omnipotence that God could have, where others that may exist, are not yet listed.

1) TOTAL: Complete omnipotence of the past, present, and future.
2) CURRENT: Complete omnipotence of the past and present, but not of the future.
3) FUTURE FOCUS: No future omnipotence except for only when, where, and how God observes.

I currently defer to a combination of CURRENT-omnipotence and FUTURE FOCUS-omnipotence, which when reduced greatly, is similar to human sensing, as the only effective mode of God.

Though God *may* have TOTAL omnipotence, if He wants, but can *never exercise it*, and still be the God of love as you claim.  In fact, I find a direct conflicting relationship between TOTAL omnipotence and love, which you claim [”We are in God's image because we have intelligence and the capacity to *love*; but this has *nothing to do with omnipotence*.”]  Perhaps by [“*nothing*”] you meant [“a direct conflicting relationship”].  Why do I claim a direct conflicting relationship between love and TOTAL omnipotence?  Please follow:

1) we are made in God's image, and just as we can hazily sense the future possibility, and can know the past, so must God be, except that God can see all of the past, and looks in some Self-limiting manner into the future.  If God sharply observes the future, humans have less free will, as His sight dictates Truth.  If God less sharply observes the future, humans have more free will, as His sight has not defined the future in detail.

2) if God is TOTAL omnipotent, of all past, present, and future, as you claim, then every potential decision I could make in the future, has forcibly been made by God, in the act of observing my totality in time.

So, if I am perishing outside of time, there is nothing I can do to change that, if I am surviving outside of time, there is nothing I can do to change that.  If I love God outside of time, there is nothing I can do to change that answer, if I hate God outside of time, there is nothing I can do to change that answer.

If God is TOTAL omnipotent, then all people God casts eyes on in the future sharply, have become open loop robots, and not humans with a free will to love, for that free will love requires that God turns a muted eye on the future to allow the not chosen choices to even exist.

Where God removes His sight, though, the free will choices in time become a death trap to an eventual, certain, and definite fall, and the love becomes a snare that can’t be broken, without making God a liar for having seen the future sharply.

For example, if God turns a grand blind eye, 6 million Jews and other “undesirables” in the eyes of “justified men” are killed, and thousands lost in a war that is one of many.  The God of the infinite accidents requiring infinite helps.

Or perhaps, it was rather that, God focused His eye, and saw a war, and its losses, and could not repent from what he saw, such that He condemned us to this wrath as the True seer with TOTAL omnipotence over what He sees?  The God with the regrettable Midas Truth touch of the eyes.

If God only looks hazily (non-TOTAL-omnipotence) into the future, He does not limit human free will, so humans can actually choose to love or hate Him, as God hasn’t observed their choices already.

3) TOTAL omnipotent God created Satan and made Him his throne guarding cherub, but why would God *intentionally* put a being there He *knows* will attempt to take His throne in the future and *will* draw away His children, and *will be* promulgating all suffering in time.  With a wink and a nod to the future, God puts Satan there.

A God who turns a Self-limited eye to the future is innocent of such intentionality, when He gives life some free will in time to test a soul.  Consider, where is the test, if God already knows the exact choice-less path, and final outcome you will, even must, take?

3) TOTAL omnipotent God changes dispensations to adapt to the flow of human culture over time. First God gives the world a garden, one rule, and puts Satan in the garden. If God is TOTAL-omnipotent, this is a "setup" built to test humans to an eventual, certain, and definite failure. Another time, God gave the world the law as a schoolmaster, but later removes the law and says all are dead according to the law, you now have Jesus to remove your sins. Another "setup" built to test humans to an eventual, certain, and definite failure.

4) TOTAL omnipotent God *intentionally* creates all souls from unrepentant murderers to gentle souls, as he sees each future in totality, God knows how to create things, so He knows exactly what He is doing. If God were TOTAL omnipotent, then He wouldn't have to have the soul pass through this age at all, but simply *not create* the soul that will fail, and keep the soul that will not fail, and put the passsing ones together on a free happy world under God.  It seems that the powerful God can’t know something particular about humans without *intentionally* creating a time of suffering.

A God with Self-limited sight of the future, in order to allow free will love to exist, can’t know of the exact details of a murderer or genltle soul without watching it occur, or not occur, over time as private choices outside of God’s view are allowed to exist in these people.  God didn’t *intentionally* create an unrepentant murderer in the first place, because He didn’t look into the exact future of that one.  God the innocent creator of all things.


ANSWER: Dear Sean,

as I have said, I firmly believe that God is TOTALLY omnipotent and I see no contradiction with the fact we are made in God's image. In fact, to be made in God's image does not mean to have the same power of God.

"If God sharply observes the future, humans have less free will, as His sight dictates Truth."

I totally disagree. Your conclusion is a non-sequitur. The fact that God can sharply see the future does not limit our free-will. Your conclusion simply does not follow from the premise. We have a free-will and God always knows all of our choices (past or future). God lives out of time. Time is only a parameter of our life, it is the dimension where we live.

"2) if God is TOTAL omnipotent, of all past, present, and future, as you claim, then every potential decision I could make in the future, has forcibly been made by God, in the act of observing my totality in time."

Another non-sequitur. The fact that God knows my future choices does not mean tha my choices have been made by God.
Again your conclusion does not follow from the premise.

"3) TOTAL omnipotent God created Satan and made Him his throne guarding cherub, but why would God *intentionally* put a being there He *knows* will attempt to take His throne in the future and *will* draw away His children, and *will be* promulgating all suffering in time. "

I have already answered this qustion before.
I report here my previos answer:

The fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will yield a true and deep love for God.
God knows that the fear of eternal punishment is sometimes the only means to induce some sinners to repentance and conversion. So the salvation of these souls justifies the eternal punishment of those souls who refuse to repent and be converted. In other words, without an eternal punishment, fewer souls would be saved.
Therefore the existence of an eternal suffering in Hell is justified as an instrument to induce more men to repent and therefore be saved.

So Satan, the demons and the damned souls  have been created as an instrument to induce more men to repent and therefore be saved.

"3) TOTAL omnipotent God changes dispensations to adapt to the flow of human culture over time. First God gives the world a garden, one rule, and puts Satan in the garden. If God is TOTAL-omnipotent, this is a "setup" built to test humans to an eventual, certain, and definite failure. Another time, God gave the world the law as a schoolmaster, but later removes the law and says all are dead according to the law, you now have Jesus to remove your sins. Another "setup" built to test humans to an eventual, certain, and definite failure."

First of all the story of the garden is only symbolic.
However the relevant point is that God revealed the Truth to humanity gradually, exactly as a father who teaches his children only step by step.
The divine pedagogy appears especially in the gift of the Law. God gave the letter of the Law as a "pedagogue" to lead his people towards Christ.
God wants to communicate his own divine life to the men he freely created. By revealing himself God wishes to make them capable of responding to him, and of knowing him and of loving him far beyond their own natural capacity.
The divine plan of Revelation involves a specific divine pedagogy: God communicates himself to man gradually. He prepares him to welcome by stages the supernatural Revelation that is to culminate in the person and mission of the incarnate Word, Jesus Christ.

"4) TOTAL omnipotent God *intentionally* creates all souls from unrepentant murderers to gentle souls, as he sees each future in totality, God knows how to create things, so He knows exactly what He is doing. If God were TOTAL omnipotent, then He wouldn't have to have the soul pass through this age at all, but simply *not create* the soul that will fail, and keep the soul that will not fail, and put the passsing ones together on a free happy world under God."

I have already answered this before.

Your brother in Christ,

Marco







---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear Marco,

Keep it up, not bad!

I will follow your non sequitur rebuttal, then.  God has TOTAL omnipotence, and so He knows in all of time every one of our choices, along with each accompanying decision, as He has TOTAL omnipotence of time and of all things in time with an eagle’s eye, from outside of time.

Say decisions indicate a choices’ decision, with a letter.  So before one is created, God sees one soul’s life in all time, and all of the choices with decisions that that soul will make in time: [DCABCEFAACFACDEFFABCD]=0.0, and sees another soul’s life in time, and all of the choices with decisions that that soul will make in time: [DCABEABDCAA]=1.0.  One soul is created for destruction outside of time, and the other soul is created for salvation outside of time, as God sees all things from outside of time, and before all time.

If one *did* manage to change a choices’ decision to a *different letter* when inside of time, then we would *surprise* a God who is TOTAL omnipotent outside of time, but how do you *surprise* a TOTAL omnipotence outside of time, and before time?  Imagine how much more surprising the soul is, if a saved soul switched to destruction, and a soul for destruction switched to salvation.  How does this free will in time that you describe, follow in sequitur, from what God sees of my total time, from outside of time, and from before time?  Where is the love, if one soul is exactly programmed in time to “love” God, and the other soul in time is exactly programmed in time to “hate” God, from outside of time, and before time?

As was mentioned before:

If I am perishing outside of time, there is nothing I can do to change that, and if I am surviving outside of time, there is nothing I can do to change that.  If I love God outside of time, there is nothing I can do to change that answer, and if I hate God outside of time, there is nothing I can do to change that answer.  Not without making God a liar outside of time with TOTAL omnipotence

Clearly defining this flowing creation of surprising free will for souls, in sequitur, when considering a God of TOTAL omnipotence outside of time, over time, and before time(?), would make a very persuasive and powerful tool for the body of the church, as the church should be persuasive and powerful.  A clear powerful definition of the term “free will” by the church would also help.  Those appear to be the missing bridges to my understanding, here.

Perhaps, God continually sees a fixed past, followed by a continual fluxing future of time in its totality, and as we “play” in the world time, God sees ripples in the specifics of TOTAL future time, and simultaneously God manages the more stationary and saving features of the world, to concentrate soul salvation over time until all are converted, willingly.  Does that sound like a more reasonable atemporal foundation of free will, to start with, while preventing a non sequitur?  However, this raises a nesting question, if God with TOTAL omnipotence, sees the totality of our rippling of future fluxing time, then our choices’ decision’s become robotic again, and we cannot change it, for good or for bad, without making God’s vision of TOTAL time a lie or deception in God’s eyes.  Maybe God calls these surprising soul “deceptions” of His TOTAL vision, Satan and Jesus, as a metaphorical instrument of our free wills He gave us, i dunno.

brother in Christ

Sean


Answer
Dear Sean,

you are in error when you write:

"If one *did* manage to change a choices’ decision to a *different letter* when inside of time, then we would *surprise* a God who is TOTAL omnipotent outside of time"

Since God is out of time He always knows also all of our changes of choices. So We can never surprise God.

"Where is the love, if one soul is exactly programmed in time to “love” God, and the other soul in time is exactly programmed in time to “hate” God, from outside of time, and before time?"

We are not programmed: We have a free will, but God lives out of time and He always knows our free choices.

I think I have explained your errors and your non-sequitur at the best of my possibilities. I have nothing more to add.

Your brother in Christ,

Marco