Expert: Dean Gade - 12/8/2006

Question
Dean,

I was reading some of your responses to questions about the canon of scripture and where the bible came from.  I noticed in one of your responses you ended with this:
"But even here, there were parts of Christendom which had not recieved of accepted all and only the books which are now in the canon.  The RCC still has the Apocrypha in their Bibles and hold it as part of the canon".  First off what church do you attend and can you trace that church's history back farther than the reformation in the 16th century?  Second, in your knowledge please name the names of any other non catholic or non orthodox churches that existed before the reformation in the 16th century?  Finally, with a little research one can see that most christian churches of non protestant backgrounds i.e. catholic or orthodox have many apocraphal books in them because they were held as canonical and inspired from the early centuries.  

Answer
I have been a member of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.  Before I retired, I was a pastor ...as was my father and my grandfather.  In having the laying of hands at my ordination I can trace my "apostolic succession" back to Martin Luther.  And since He was an ordained priest in the Roman Catholic Church, our history goes back to the the Apostles.
I don't know if that's what you wanted to know when you asked about tracing my history back.  

I'm not denigrating the RCC. There has never been a perfect church.  Even the first one in Jerusalem had trouble with their teaching and practices.  
Acts 15:19-21

19 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."


Acts 15:23-29
reetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul- 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell.


Acts 21:20-26

20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."

26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.

As long as the church on earth has people running the organization, there will be differences that need to be examined to see IF they can be worked out.   Some things can't because we don't understand God's ways completely while we still live in the flesh:

1 Cor 13:11-12
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
(from New International Version)

As to the early churches:    Each of St. Paul's letters was sent to a pre-Roman Catholic and Orthodox church as we see them today.  The churchs mentioned in the Revelation through St. John chapter 2 were church centers also.   St. Augustine, one of my favorite church fathers, was from Hippo.As time went on in the history of the church, the church centers consolidated with other church centers until the main governments were Rome and Byzantia.

Eventually these two centers excommunicated each other over the "filioque" controversy in the Creed.

BACK TO THE CANON:

When the various church centers met to set the canon of the Bible, their criteria did not allow the apocryphal books to be included.  In the Seputagint and the Vulgate, they were included;  390-405 AD. However Irenanais and Tertullian did not accept  in earlier time nor did Athanasius.  He held that there were only the 27 books which made up the canon in the third century.   It was the Council of Carthage which pretty well set the canon in 397AD.