Expert: Elder Greg Madden - 12/14/2007

Question
I AM CURRENTLY CHATTING ONLINE WITH A NONBELIEVER WHO IS REALLY SMART AND SEEMS TO LEAVE ME BLANK.hE SAYS THEIRS NO REAL PROOF JESUS EXISTED. I am going to send you what his latest letter says and maybe you could e-mail me back an answer to what he has to say so i can forward to him. i would appreciate anything you can e-mail me back so i can answer this guy better than i can. Thanks a bunch. Merry Christmas.........scroll down for what i attached.

HIS RESPONSE TO WHAT I TRIED TO PROVE TO HIM THAT JESUS EXISTED....................
I'm sorry---but your link (above) is useless in this debate.
It purports to show that GOD exists--which is something unprovable.
Belief in God is a matter of faith, and thus needs no proof to those who believe, and is impossible to prove to those who do not.

But that begs the issue.
I was speaking of Jesus, the man--not of the existence of God.

Bet you didn't even try to read or understand the links I sent to you.

You said there was more proof that Jesus existed than that Ceaser existed.
This is pure nonsense.
There are numerous references to the Ceasars not only by historians, but by writers who were contemporary with the Ceasars.
Josephus, a historian who lived when Jesus was allegedly alive, is often used as "proof" of Jesus' existance.
Yet many historians refute the claim, saying Josephus' work was tampered with by Christian "historians" after the fact.

I am not certain Jesus existed as a person, and definitely unconvinced he was the Messiah.
As for the Caesars, they left their mark on history, left behind writings, etc.

It is odd that Jesus left behind no writing of his own.
Everything about him is heresay: it is "quoted" by others, many of whom lived long after he was dead.
Given that other rabbis, both then and later, were prolific writers, it is strange that not one word of Jesus' was ever written by him.

Kevin, you are grasping at straws...and not even for a good reason.
As I said above, faith needs no proof.
You may continue to believe, with or without proof.
That is the definition of faith.
But you cannot claim that historical fact confirmed by even those who are or were NOT admirers of the subjects is a fiction.

Produce even one definitive piece of writing by someone who was NOT a Christian that speaks of Jesus' life, and I will open my mind to it.

By the way, your arguments are not helped by your inability to write a coherent sentence.

Yes, Kevin, your teachers were right: when it comes to academic credibility, spelling DOES count.

But then again...it does not matter as an article of faith.

pax.  

Answer
Kevin,

Thank you for your questions, and for your efforts in sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ. I will do my best to help.

First, I would try to share with pax the fact the according to the Bible, Jesus is God in the flesh. Therefore to believe in God, is to beile in Jesus. Though I doubt if pax will accept this, it is important that pax understands this.

Second, I am sending your several web sites that I think will help you to share with pax that there are historical figures that were,a and were not Christians that verify the existence of Jesus. I suggest that you read through these sites, and share the info. I would not just send pax the links to the sites (unless you feel it is necessary). Here are a few of these sites...

http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77/

http://sonic.net/sentinel/naij3.html

http://www.carm.org/questions/extrabiblical_accounts.htm

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/jrthal.html

http://cfmin.wordpress.com/2007/08/02/is-there-any-historical-proof-that-jesus-e...

My last word of advice is that you pray and seek Gods wisdom in sharing the Gospel. Remember, it is not our responsibility to convince people to believe and be saved, but to simple share the Gospel with a lost world.

Matthew 13:1-23

Kevin, please let me know if this helps, or if you have any further questions.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Elder Greg Madden
http://www.forministry.com/USOKPENTEMMM1