Expert: Carl Fuglein - 7/24/2008

Question
QUESTION: i was wondering what your views were on the LDS church. I've heard some things that I don't know are true and I was wondering what you thought. Thanks.

ANSWER: Hi Lilly,

On the surface, the Mormon church appears to be a Christian, and somewhat normal.  Indeed, the Mormon church does have a lot of practices that are beneficial - a strong belief in families, in being resourceful, in recommending service for teens, genealogy research, etc.

But when you start looking beneath the surface, what you find is a cult that believes that men can become Gods, women have no standing without their husband, racist, power hungry leadership, secret ceremonies that exclude outsiders, and the one I find the strangest, secret underwear.

There are two types of Mormons - the hard core Mormons are generally referred to as "True Blue Mormons".  If you are raised Mormon, attend the secret Temple ceremonies, give 15% of your income, go on a mission as a teen, and hold a "Temple Card" (without which you cannot enter the Temple), you are a True Blue Mormon.  If, for whatever reason, you no longer believe and want to leave the church, you would be ostracized by all in the church, and even disowned by your family.  You may even have to file suit to have your name removed from their rolls (part of the reason they are so large is because they only add people to the rolls, they don't remove unless forced to).

The second type of Mormon is a Jack Mormon.  They go to church meetings on Sunday, and may do a little socializing and work for the church, but they do not have their temple card, weren't married in the temple, and have no desire to get one.

I've known several True Blue Mormons, and I've found all of them to be power hungry and sometimes are not very nice people - I worked for one for years and I can say unequivocally that he was the worst boss I ever had, a hypocrite and totally uncompassionate.  The Jack Mormons I've known have all been pretty nice.

The best way to find out about a religion or denomination is to talk to members, or even better, EX-members and find out why they left.  You can find a wealth of information at this website:

http://exmormon.org/

If you are considering joining the church, or even if you are just curious, I highly recommend that you read as much of this site as you can - start at the top with the letters from the exmembers.

If you have any more questions, I'd be happy to answer them, but the bottom line is that the Mormon church is bad news.

Blessings,
Carl


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Isn't their "special underwear" just so they can be modest? I've heard that it's actually a protection thing for them too.

If they believe in families so much why would they want to disown them? Is that the church as a whole or is that just a few people in the entire religion? I know a lot of LDS families and they are very close and some of them aren't even memebers. Wasn't the founder from a divided home, religiously speaking?

You said 15%. I've only been told it's 10%. And that it's to help those who need help and to help the church grow. What do you think it's used for?

Just out of curisoity and to help me understand, are you LDS or have you ever been? Have you been in their meetings or read their Book of Mormon before? I'm readig it now and also the Doctrine and Covenants and i was wondering if you had. Just curious. Thanks for you help so far.

ANSWER: Lilly-

You can read more about their underwear at this link:

http://www.dearelder.com/index/inc_name/Mormon/title2/Mormon_Underwear

What I personally find so interesting about it is that many won't even admit to wearing it.  It is supposed to be sacred, and I guess that's their right to have that belief, but it's also supposed to "protect" them from the world.  As a Christian, I wear a cross, actually 2 crosses, and a fish, around my neck, 24/7.  It could conceivably fall into the same category as the underwear, but I don't believe it's going to protect me from harm or from the world, and I don't WANT to keep it secret.  I WANT people to see the cross - for two reasons:  1) It makes me be a better person, i.e., I'm unlikely to swear or get angry in a public setting, because the cross reminds me who I am and that I should be setting a good example;  2) I am occasionally asked about the cross, and it gives me an opportunity to witness to my Christian faith.

Joseph Smith was the founder of the Mormon church.  At a young age, he was confused about what church to join.  Read more about him here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

He was NOT from a divided home.  At the age of 23, there is strong evidence that he actually joine a Methodist Church:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080324093141AAHBrnN


As for the family disowning, it is NOT a small percentage.  There are many members of the LDS that are NOT temple card holders, i.e., Jack Mormons that I mentioned before.  Only the True Blue Mormons, the ones with the temple card would ostracize and disown their families for leaving.  For an example of how pervasive this is, if only one member of a family were to leave, the other people in their congregation would shun not only the one who left, but the family who stayed as well.  If someone were to meet, and fall in love with and want to marry a Mormon, and convert to Mormonism and get married in the temple, his or her parents, as non-mormons would not be allowed to go to the wedding ceremony.

There are indeed many LDS families that are close.  The Mormons stress the importance of family, but in some ways, that is only to reinforce their belief that a woman cannot gain the celestial kingdom without a husband.  Read some of the letters at exmormon.com - many of them talk about being disowned by their families.

I've been told 15%.  It may only be 10%, which is a biblical standard, I'm unsure of that.  The BIG difference between LDS and a mainstream Christian church is that you have to PROVE that you actually give that much money to the church before you can be admitted to the temple.  In any mainstream Christian church (or Jewish either), they will not ask you to prove anything.  The average giving by most mainstream Christians is actually less than 5%, but no matter what they give, even if it is nothing, they can come to church.  I personally give 10-12% of my income every year to my church and other charitable organizations.  

The money is used for the church and church activities. What else it's used for, I have no idea, but it troubles me that even the members don't know where the money goes.  I fear a lot of it goes in the top administrators pockets. The BIG difference is that finances of the Mormon church are not public record, and not even given to the members, only a select few at the top of the administration.  In the vast majority of other churches, if you're a member, or even a non-member thinking about joining a church, you can see where the money is going.  My church congregation publishes complete financial statements every quarter and accounts for every penny they get and every penny they spend.  The LDS does not do that.

I have NOT been an LDS, nor will I ever be.  I HAVE read parts of the Book of Mormon and Doctrines and Covenants.  As I mentioned in my first letter, you will find that on the surface, it appears like an ordinary church, but trust me, it's a cult.  Not a bad cult like Jimmy Jones or the groups in California that have committed mass suicides, but a cult nevertheless.  They will not tell you everything they believe at first, because they're scared of running you off with some of the weird beliefs.  You come to my Christian church, and I will tell you everything you need to know right up front, everything that I believe.  We hold nothing back.  We open our arms to everyone, even Mormons.

How do I know so much about the LDS church?  Because I've known more than a few LDS people, some of whom I really like, and one that I really despise - why?  because the man has no compassion, he's a liar and hypocrite, a horrible co-worker and boss.  Because of him (he was my boss for 5 years), I didn't want to lump ALL mormons into the same category, so I went on a search for as much information about the mormon church that I could find.  And what I found, I didn't like, despite liking some members of their church.

Lily, you haven't told me how old you were, nor have you told me why you're thinking about the LDS.  My only recommendation to you is to try other churches, as well, and I think you will soon see some of the differences.  If you're being recruited by the Mormon church, especially if by a couple "missionaries", ask them point blank these questions:

When was the last time you talked to your mother?  (Unless they've changed the rules, they're only allowed to talk to family on holidays.  If they're so family oriented, don't you think they'd want to talk to their families at least every week?  I talk to my 37 year old daughter almost every day.)

Do you believe that you're going to become a God?
Do you believe that you're going to become like Jesus and own a planet?
Can I go to heaven if I don't get married?
If I get married to a Mormon in the temple, can my parents come to the wedding?
Why don't you practice polygamy any more?
Do you believe that your president speaks for God?

I guarantee you that they will answer all those questions because they've been programmed to do so.  But I've found far too many discrepancies in the book of Mormon to believe in any of it.  All of the research about the Bible just reinforces it, doesn't dispel any of it, i.e., there are more original copies of gospels and Biblical books that were uncovered as recently as 1947, yet NO original copy of the Book of Mormon which was unearthed in the 1800's exists today.  Parts of the Bible were written almost 4000 years ago.  If we found them 4000 years later, where's the Book of Mormon that's only 150 years old?

Don't take just my word for it, read just the first page of this document:  http://contenderministries.org/mormonism/bomproblems.php


Lily, you haven't told me how old you were, nor have you told me why you're thinking about the LDS.  My only recommendation to you is to try other churches, as well, and I think you will soon see some of the differences. It's good that we're having this conversation - you need to talk to as many people as you can, and as many different churches as you can.  Make up your own mind.  Lilly, I believe that you can go to heaven by believing that Jesus died for your sins, that you freely admit this and ask him to live in your heart.  You don't have to get married.  You don't have to give my church 10%.  You don't have to wear underwear.  You don't have to follow volumes of information in the Doctrines and Covenants.  No rules, just right.  Jesus is Lord.  Period.  That's all you need to know.

Feel free to ask more questions.

Blessings,
Carl


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: But wasn't half of his family Presbyterian and the other half Methodist? I've never read any where that he actually joined a church. He was leaning to the Methodist but he still wasn't sure so he went to pray after he read in James 1:5. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The reason they wouldn't be able to go in the temple for the ceremony is because they don't have a recommend and they aren't memebers. The temple is the Lord's house and you need to be clean in order to be in His presence. That means that you have to be clean to be in His house as well. There are very sacred things that take place in the temple and it is a privilege to witness them. They aren't secret. It's just very important to the Church.

A man can't gain Celestial glory without a wife either. It works both ways. There can be marriages made in the next life so more people who didn't get the chance to get married can be and get that highest glory.

I thought the callings in the church were from the Lord so the people didn't get paid. They all have jobs and no one sends around a collection plate. I think the tithing goes to build more churches and temples and stuff like that to pread the church.

I know so much because I have had the missionaries teach me and they told me to find out for myself what the church is. I'm taking what they have said and what I believe and asking you about it.

I am 15 and I have been to about 10 different churches. This is one that makes the most sense. Everything is exlpained to me in a way that I like. It works for me.

I asked the missionaries and they said that they can e-mail their parents whenever they want to but they can call on holidays and birthdays. It's so they stay focused and don't get homesick to easily.

They believe that they will become Gods of their own worlds if they are made like God through their actions. In the next life after they die, they will be judged and then if they made it to the highest glory, they can have their own worlds.

You can go to heaven if you don't get married but you will have the option of getting married there to get to the highest glory.

Non-member parents won't be able to come to the wedding. They can come to the temple grounds but they can't be in the sacred sealing ceremony.

They don't practice polygamy because they aren't commanded to. It was only commanded when the women needed help when their husbands died and so they could have a man's help coming across the plains.

They believe that God speaks to us through our prophet.

The Book of Mormon came from gold plates that were about 2000 years old preserved in a box of cement in a hill. That has to mean something.

That's all I have for now. I don't know what else I need now. I think I have my answer. Thanks for your help.

Answer
Hi Lily-

It looks pretty obvious to me that you have read little of what I suggested you read, particularly on the http://exmormon.org site.  If you're not going to read what I suggest, then there is no way I can help you.  You've made up your mind that the Mormon church is the right one for you.  You're free to believe what you want.  Before you join, however, I strongly recommend that you read this webpage:

http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm

Especially the part about "Your Life as a Mormon".  I've put some excerpts from that section below.  If you can live with all of them, then go for it, with my blessing.  If not, then I suggest you try some other churches - I would recommend United Church of Christ, United Methodist, or Unitarian.


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Excerpts from the exmormon site:

To get permission to have these ceremonies performed in the temple, you must prove yourself to be a faithful and obedient member of the church and do everything commanded by the church authorities, from the Prophet down to the local level. You will have to undergo a personal "worthiness" interview with the local church authorities inquiring into your private life and your religious and social activities.  

You will be expected to give up the use of alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea.

You will be expected to fulfill any work assignment given to you. These assignments may be teaching, record keeping, janitorial work, cannery or farm work, helping in the Sunday nursery - any job that needs to be done.

You will be advised not to associate with "apostates," that is, former Mormons

If you should ever decide that you made a mistake in joining the church and then leave it, you will probably find (judging from the experiences of others who have done so) that many of your Mormon friends will abandon and shun you. If you are unable to convince your family members to leave the church with you, you will find that the church has broken up your family and your relationship with them may never recover.

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other things to consider:
Examine carefully both sides of the Mormon story. Listen to the stories of those who have been through an unhappy Mormon experience, not just those Mormons who may speak glowingly of life in the church.   

The Mormon missionaries are often charming and enthusiastic. They have an attractive story to tell. At first it sounds wonderful. But remember the old saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!" Be careful not to fall into the trap of believing something simply because you want it to be true. Mormons may tell you that those who criticize the church are lying, misquoting and distorting. If you examine the sources used by the critics, however, you will discover that most of their source material is from official or semi-official Mormon writings. You, too, should examine those sources.

Is Mormonism a "cult"? Many experts on religious cults see in Mormonism the same fundamental characteristics as cults which have entrapped the unsuspecting, even though most people think of "cults" only as small, unknown groups. Use a "cult checklist" to evaluate Mormonism, or any group, before you commit yourself.
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And finally, always feel free to write to me again.  I don't know if I've helped you decide at all, and that was my point.  But if you're decided, please go with God.

Blessings,
carl