Expert: Carl Fuglein - 2/26/2011

Question
QUESTION: Okay, so I'm 15 and a Christian who's gone to church all my life. I've been going out with my boyfriend for 8 months now (today) and I have several questions/worries. I'd like to know your reaction or answer to them...


To start off, I think you should know that my boyfriend (who is also 15 and in my class at school) is an atheist but respects me and truly believes he wants to be with me forever, and marry me. I understand this is definitely not certain even though he says it is. He also accepts that I will bring up my children as Christians and is fine with it. I know thinking about that is a bit ahead of my age, but I wanted to make it clear to him. Also, I think you should know I’m a virgin and I intend on staying that way till I’m married, he also respects that. I don’t let him touch my bum or breasts, I don’t really want him to touch my stomach (but I don’t mind that much, either under or over my top, I’m not very strict with this) and anything worse than that there is no question I let him feel. He knows all of this. I also read your essay about ‘How far is too far’, to try to set myself a limit...the most we do i intensive kissing with maybe hands under tops but not on private areas. This in itself is probably too far I understand, but it is hard to set myself a limit as I’m not sure about it all...I suppose I might want to do less but it’s hard to go back... I should also mention that the furthest he’s gone before he went out with me was to feel a girl’s breasts and snog. And another piece of information that might help, he is my first boyfriend (but I’m not the sort of person anyone would take advantage of, I’m not innocent, and I get top grades in everything-I don’t mean to boast, sorry but I want you to know I’m not stupid- and people know me as being a Christian and being a good person with fairly strict morals about sex). I usually say no to boys when they ask me out, but I liked this one and had for about a year so I believe our relationship can last and we could get married etc... (I wouldn’t go out with anyone unless I thought there was a future)

  First of all the major problem, about a month ago, we were lying on his bed watching a film, and I shut my eyes and pretended to sleep because I didn’t really want to watch the film. However, he thought I was asleep and so he looked at me for a while, then said my name softly, to see if I really was asleep. For some reason, I pretended to be asleep and didn’t respond. He went on and felt my stomach...slowly... Then he went on to rub my stomach under my top. He moved his way up slowly until he was feeling my breasts (with my bra on  underneath). I have several points at this stage...
  He knows my boundaries clearly, this is why it’s so wrong. However while all this was going on, I still hadn’t ‘woken up’ and told him to stop, was this wrong of me? Also, it did get me horny, is this wrong? And anther thing, my conclusion as to why he did it, it could just be that he didn’t realise how bad it was? It could be his innocence? Anyway, I shall carry on with the story...
  He kept feeling my breasts, even moving me in position so he could do it easier, always checking I was still asleep (I knew because with my eyes closed i could see his shadow of his head looking at me). He pulled up my top so that it was above my breasts and he could see my body. He eventually stopped and pulled my top down, then after about 20 mins I ‘woke up’ and acted as if everything was normal, as did he. I tried to guilt trip him into confessing what he did, by telling him I loved how he always respects me and my boundaries but he didn’t... I thought that was the end of it, but no, a week later, I had a plan so that if he did it again, I would catch him in the act and tell him to stop and make it clear but also without breaking up (he is a really clever nice, caring person and I believe I love him). So I did it again, and sure enough, he had a feel again, but it was worse this time, and he felt inside my bra and my bum too.
  At this point, I’d once again like to confess that it did actually get me horny...is this wrong? Anyway, carrying on...
  Time went by, but I didn’t get the courage to stop him...I was worried we might break up if I mentioned it in this way...
  This second time he did it was about 2 weeks ago now, and I have since decided to not ‘fall asleep’ at his house anymore, and to talk to him about it... but what I want to ask you is what should I do? Do you think it’s still right I go out with him? I do want to but maybe it’s really really bad of me? And also, how should I do it? What should I do to his different possible reactions? ...There is another complication...
  The next time I see him out of school (so that we have time together to speak about it) will be in a week’s time (there is no way it can be earlier, my mum doesn’t like me seeing him more than once a week). However, this will be at a party so i doubt we will have the space to talk about it. But this party is a sleepover too, with boys and alcohol (but nobody will get drunk) ...so he will be there too, should I sleep with him (with all my clothes on...not sex...literally just sleeping on a sofa or on the floor near him with other people in the room), or should I not in case it happens again? Please help me... Also, do you think it is wrong for me to sleep with him, even in this innocent way, if he didn't touch me? This is the end of my first problem...

  Next, I would like to talk about your essay I previously mentioned ‘How far is too far?’. So far I have got horny with my boyfriend with our intensive kissing but that is it, and once he went to feel my boobs during this but we stopped and I made it clear this was unacceptable... So what should I do? Can I carry on like this or should I reduce our ‘physicalness’? I should also mention that I am quite liberal as a Christian compared to others...I go to a Methodist church but I am willing to accept the Bible is probably a metaphor and shouldn’t be taken literally...

  And finally, I am getting baptised on the 13th March this year... Should I change my ways for this? I asked him if he could come and he said he would... This is surely a good sign? Should i be encouraged? And also, my mum wants me to try to convert him to Christianity, this would make things a lot easier, but he doesn’t want to, I respect that and his opinions. He knows about the bible and it’s his choice so I shouldn’t do any more...or should I?

  It would be a great help if you could answer this, I apologize for the length and how confusing it must all sound but it’s been playing on my mind for a while and I need to know as I haven’t told anyone about it all as I don’t want them to hate him for it...I do really like him and see a future for us so I’m pretty sure I don’t want to break up. Thank you for reading this and taking your time, I hope to hear from you soon...

ANSWER: Joanna-

You are NOT going to like my answer, so be prepared:

1) you have made some very bad choices, primarily, "not to "wake up" while he was feeling you up.  Lying on a bed at age 15 with a boy is a very bad idea.

2) Need I remind you, he is a teenage atheist boy, he is interested in only thing - having sex with you.  That is ALL that is on his mind.  Trust me.  I was a 15 year old CHRISTIAN boy and that's all I was interested in.

3)  the chances of you marrying him are about 5%, if that.  Some high school romances do end up in marriage, but I doubt this one does.

4)  You may have read my essay, but you didn't really read it - you need to read it WITH your boyfriend and set goals, boundaries TOGETHER.  Can you stay together if you reduce your physicalness?  Sure, but only if you make the decision together.

5)  Do NOT go to the party.  I may be old fashioned, but boy/girl unsupervised sleepovers are a horrible idea.

6) Is it a sin that you got horny?  No - the sin is that you let it get that far and that you are in danger of going farther and having sex with someone who is not your husband.   That's the real sin - having sex with someone who is not your spouse.

7)  Before being baptized, you should repent of ALL of your sins.  Please DO get baptized - maybe it will make you realize the bad choices you're making.

8)  I disagree with your mum - don't force him to become a Christian.  If you start making the right choices and stick to your morals, it will eventually wear off on him and his true colors will come out - either he will leave because he realizes he's never going to have sex with you, or realizes that God is more important to you than he is.  I've always said, if your boyfriend doesn't love Jesus more than he loves you, dump him.


You can keep dating him, but I only see heartache ahead unless you have a long talk with him and decide your boundaries together - and you better make them stick this time.  Putting yourself into situations like the party is NOT helping.


You may think I'm a prude, but I've been there, done that, and I regret it.  I can't tell you what to do with your body, but you are on a dangerous path towards sex, stds, and possibly pregnancy.  The few moments of pleasure you get from the sex are absolutely not worth being pregnant at 15 or having herpes for life, or getting AIDS which ends your life.

Hope this helps.  It's called tough love.  I really do want the best for you.

Blessings,
Carl


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for your quick reply and for telling me your opinion, I really value it. I was thinking along these lines too, I guess I just needed someone to tell me.

  Also, in reply to what you said, I know that there is a very very low chance of marrying him, I completely understand that and I'm not innocent to think it will happen, but I understand why you said it.
  And for your essay, I had read about this subject around the internet from different points of view a lot (most of them religious ones) and I did tell my boyfriend to read it too, we gave ourself a limit of 12- 'Wow, that was fun, what's next?  Lying down on a couch perhaps, but "just kissing".' And since we set this, it's true, we haven't gone further, but perhaps you think this is too far in itself? (...When I say we haven't gone further, I mean apart from when I fell asleep). And also, recently, I told him about how I was getting baptised and how things would have to change because I know at the moment it isn't right and I want to change. He accepts this, he also accepts when I tell him me religion comes before him, but maybe I realise I haven't been acting this way? I do want to change and as long as my boyfriend is too, I would like to stay with him, just with reduced physicalness... Is this okay do you think?
  Then there is the subject of the party, there will be the host’s parents there and they are both catholic, also, there will always be people around and I told my friends (who are also Christian) part of my story so that if I really did fall asleep, and he tried anything, they would immediately stop him. However, I will be in my own sleeping bag (if we get any sleep) so I don’t think much wrong can happen...
  Thank you for your answer on whether or not it is a sin to get horny, since I’ve thought about our baptism, now when I’m with him, we don’t even kiss sometimes, so I believe it is improving but I need to keep it like this, that’s the problem, so thank you for your answer. Also, I honestly have no intention of having sex, there is no way this would happen and I know it might sound as if the situations I’m in would make this happen, but there is honestly no way that I would.
  And yes, I definitely do intend on changing before my baptism, I want it to be a new start, I’ve been a Christian all my life, but I want to be a much better one, I understand it is a big thing...
  Yes I will do that, I will make sure I am more strict on putting religion first, and I hope he will realise this as I, like anyone else, do not want to break up, but I understand that it will be the right choice if he carries on like this...
  And about the last bit, it is harsh but I understand why you said it, however there is NO WAY I would do anything that would get me pregnant or pas on std/sti’s etc.. I think this is completely wrong and would never do anything like that till I was married.
  So thank you, it did help a lot and thanks for the quick reply too, I will see my boyfriend when we are back at school (next week) do you think I should speak to him about this at school (45 minute break but before the party) or should I wait till after the party but when we have more time? Thank you again, you are a great help you have no idea,

Joanna

Answer
Joanna-

It's hard for me to say what's too far.  Why?  Because too many people are looking for an absolute rule - life is not like that.  Life is full of temptations.  If I said you shouldn't kiss, would you not kiss him?  Some people don't kiss until they get married.  If I told you that you could do everything but, would you do that?  It's all relative to the people involved.  Part of growing up is learning to make your own decisions.

As for your boyfriend, I believe it is extremely disrespectful of him to explore your body while you're sleeping, and given the chance, I'm afraid he'd do it again.  Teenage boys are full of raging hormones, and they're hard to control.

I think you just need to trust your instincts - you know the issues, you know the consequences, I just don't want you to put yourself in a position of risk.  You told me that there would be a party WITH alcohol.  If parents are allegedly chaperoning, and they're allowing alcohol, I wouldn't trust the parents.  Not only is it against the law, I think it's unconscionable - someone has to be the adult.  I would NEVER allow my child to have alcohol at a party of hers.

Go ahead and go to the party, but you NEED to talk to your boyfriend and tell him what your boundaries are - asleep or awake.

blessings,
carl