Expert: Carl Fuglein - 12/12/2006

Question
"can I ask you what specifically turns you off from Christianity?"
-the people close to me who are Christians. Though i'll try to not take that into much consderation.
-conflicting beliefs:
--God/Jesus being "A way not THE way".(like said before).
--Heaven and Hell: For me, these places do not exist at all. I believe that if as human beings we are really eternal, we will all go to the same final resting place or reincarnate. If we arent, then we just die and nothing happens. Since one cannot get an objective answer on what happens after death, I try not to concern myself with that.
--Some churches claim that by descending from Adam and Eve that we are already sinful. I disagree with this. I think people make choices that make them sin. No one is born sinful. (like the concept of Original sin).
--Salvation: I seriously doubt people need to be saved for eternity to be able to go to heaven (as i have stated i dont believe in heaven or hell). Even though I dont belive in eternal salvation, I do believe people should be saved - not for eternal life purposes but for them to be able to lead a life correctly as pure and good as possible. Salvation is needed to live a better life here on earth.
--hmm...that's basically it. I dont reject christianity. I just find that it should be a bit more flexible in order to appeal to others. No one can say with certainty their way of seeing things and interpreting the Bible is the utmost correct one.

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The text above is a follow-up to ...

-----Question-----
I will start from the last part.
I chose you to answer my question because of your Expertise description ("nothing shocks me"). This was important for me because I havent been able to get straight answers from Christians for a while. When I was going to church and had other christians around me, they all expected me to change evrything about myself in order to fit in. They felt I had to just accept the teachings as they were and I was not okay with that because I tend to think about stuff a lot. I needed someone who whould not know me personally in order to give me a better answer than what I had gotten. I think your response was great in many areas. I think I made a great choice of expert because as you said "I cannot prove God to you, nor will I try". <<That is something most Christians will not follow since most Ive met have tried to make me believe by force.

-I will try to find some answers with other pastors and check for congragations which will accept my many defects and help me through issues I feel I should work on. I will also talk with my best-friend who is gay if I fing a gay-friendly congregation where I live (Puerto Rico).

-"Whatever you choose, please do NOT choose to estrange yourself from your parents.  As a parent myself, I’d love my daughter no matter what she chose as a lifestyle."
 --My parents have been divorced since I was 5. I barely see my dad except on weekends. he isn't a stranger to me though. My mother and I have a sort of love-hate relationship. We fight a lot. Sometimes my fault, sometimes hers. Ever since she lost her job, she's been even more depressed than usual. I cant stand seeing her all the time doing nothing at home and then yelling at me because I am not helping her. We barely talk anymore. We havent talked about things that are happening to me in quite a while. She's basically against everything I like or do. I cant tell her about tattoos cuz she hates them (she knows about only one). I cant tell her about my experiences with drugs mainly because it would hurt her too much (after all she's been through with her brother). Sometimes I feel like the "blacksheep" of the family. Im nothing like they wanted for their daughter. Sometimes I feel like they're too perfect and i'm just nothing like that. I have issues I should work out there.

-"..marijuana.  If you use it responsibly and not drive while you’re using it, I suppose it’s okay, but I would condemn it from the standpoint that it IS illegal.  As for cocaine, I’m definitely against it.."
 -- I think marijuana should be completely legalized. I dont see it being all bad as it is natural and has less chemicals than cigarettes. With cocaine, I am quite in the middle with it because it does come from a natural source but i know the effects it has. It is mostly psychologically addicting not necessarily physically. I will try to control my use of it.

-Sometimes, i'd like to fuse Christianity and Paganism. I see the imcompatibilities. I dont understand how the 2 could be mixed even though some people seem to think that can be done and they call it "christian wicca". If i could sincerely believe both at the same time my religion issues would be solved. I am quite a feminist and I get pissed at people who seem to say that God is male, not female. I dont believe it is either gender. For me it is neutral, which is why I write IT instead of HE or SHE. I have problems with people trying to make me see God wth human characteristics. The closest way I can describe God is by the phrase "universal energy". Even though the basic teacings in Wicca say there are 2 separate deities, I say there is only one unknowable spirit that has very different aspects and ways of appearing to everybody. I think most religions are pathways to this eternal being and that none who sincerely loves that supreme being (in any facet) is wrong. My issue comes with finding a flexible congregation that in some way accepts this (other than the Unitarians). Another issue is trying to make sense of all that I believe and fitting it into something. As for Christianiy, I have never doubted the God they profess is real. I see it as an aspect of the supreme being. But if i obviously express my view in a church i would be looked down upon for my non-traditional views. I guess i'll just wait a little longer until I make my decision.

As for my last words, I want to thank you for answering all my questions and your guidance. You've shed light on topics I thought (from personal experiences) all other Christians would always see as out-of-the norm and "in need to be fixed completely in order to participate".
Sincerely,
Adrianna

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The text above is a follow-up to ...

-----Question-----
First off I want to say that Im not Christian. I want an objective Point-of-View of my situation. I am asking the question to a Christian fellow simply because I was raised in a christian atmosphere and my parents are christian.
I am 17 (18 in february). I left Christianity because of different issues. I am not in accordance with many of its general teachings and some people's practices (I know not all christians behave the same way, but the ones I have seen have seriously negatively-impacted my way of viewing christian behaviour).
1:I wouldnt go as far as associating myself with any religion, though I have thoroughly studied and even practiced Wicca/Paganism for about a bit more than 2 yrs. I have also studied buddhism. Most of my personal beliefs are from Christianity, Paganism, and Agnosticism. How do you feel about other religions esp. paganism? How do you view the mix of beliefs a person can have?
2: How do you feel (or how it is viewed in Christianity) about tattoos and other body modifications? I have quite a few tattoos and will be getting more as time passes. I am certainly in love with them as I find them a way of art. I also have about 8 piercings, all in the ears.
3: I have read about your opinion of soft drugs like marijuana. I have dabbled in drugs (on-off sort of deal, never addicted to it - just used reacreationally). Ive done weed and last week I tried cocaine for the first time. Before going into these 2 I was for some time actually addicted to pain killers, but left them and even when I have pain I dont like to use them at all. I think the reason why I havent gone further in using them is because I have such a high tolerance for them that using a normal quantity would not do anything at all to me. I definetely dont want to become an addict, since my mom's brother is and it has been quite tough dealing with the problems he brings to the family. I dont ever want to become like him. I believe I shouldnt do anything to harm myself, not beacause of some higher being, but because I have plans for the future. Im just curious about your view on using drugs like weed and cocaine just reacreationally like once or twice per month.
4: I am for the most part a very reserved person. I have been battling depression quite a while now (for about 3+ yrs). I have been going not only to psychologists and psychiatrists, but also to christian counselors. I even gave Christianity and its God a try again last year, but quit after 4 months because of conflicting beliefs. I was told once that maybe it could be because of chemical imbalance and that I should visit a phychiatrist to get a prescription. I have been going to a phychiatrist, but everytime I go there im fine. When in between appointments is when im just completely submerged in depression, somehow a few days or week before Im all right - so I dont tell this person. I have given up on this type of people to try to help me simply because telling my friends whats wrong seems to help better.
5: This one has to do with sexual orientation. I know many people who are either gay or bisexual. I am totally in oposition with the fact that gay people are sinful. I ocnsider myself bi-curious because even though I am atraccted to both sexes (both sexually and emotionally- the same with males as with females) I have never had a relationship with one. Should Christianity allow bi and gay people in churches without constantly trying to change them and accepting them for who they are and the choices they make?
And finally:
What is your view on non-christian lifestyles? Any advice?
-----Answer-----
Hi Adrianna-

I’ll be as objective as I can, but you’re probably not going to like a lot of what I say.  I’ll address your issues point by point.

You said:
I am 17 (18 in february). I left Christianity because of different issues. I am not in accordance with many of its general teachings and some people's practices (I know not all christians behave the same way, but the ones I have seen have seriously negatively-impacted my way of viewing christian behaviour).
~~~~~~~~~~
I sincerely think you need to reevaluate Christianity based on its teaching and theology and NOT on Christians.  Ghandi once said, “I like your Christ, but I’m not so sure about your Christians.”  There are many Christians who are not actually Christian and they give the rest of us a bad name.  For example, if you were to judge all Democrats by just looking at Clinton, or all Republicans just by looking at Bush, you’d miss a chance of being either a good Democrat or a good Republican.  Not all Christians think like Jerry Falwell, in fact, few do.


You said:
1:I wouldnt go as far as associating myself with any religion, though I have thoroughly studied and even practiced Wicca/Paganism for about a bit more than 2 yrs. I have also studied buddhism. Most of my personal beliefs are from Christianity, Paganism, and Agnosticism. How do you feel about other religions esp. paganism? How do you view the mix of beliefs a person can have?
~~~~~~~~~~
Your religion is your business, not mine.  I cannot prove to you that my religion is right or even better than yours, but it is right for me, and it is my BELIEF that it is the right religion for everyone.  That does NOT mean that there is nothing to learn from other religions – there are some good things in just about every religion except perhaps for Satanism.  You can mix and match religions all you like, but the bottom line is that much of these other religions are just incompatible with Christian teaching.  Am I right?  I think so, but if you were raised Christian, you know that we as Christians can’t even agree on many things – that’s why there are so many denominations.  I would imagine the same is true of other religions, i.e., there are incompatibilities between them.

You said:
2: How do you feel (or how it is viewed in Christianity) about tattoos and other body modifications? I have quite a few tattoos and will be getting more as time passes. I am certainly in love with them as I find them a way of art. I also have about 8 piercings, all in the ears.
~~~~~~~~~~
Tattoos, in general, are fine with me, as long as they don’t portray anything that could be construed as anti-Christian, or promote violence or witchcraft.  Piercings are okay, too - it's your body.  Other than the obvious possibilities of infection, I think they're okay and wouldn't hold it against anyone.  I’ve thought of getting a Christian tattoo myself, although probably will not due to my personal health issues.  You should know that many Christians have tattoos, and many shun them.  Again, we can’t agree.  There is nothing scriptural that I can think of that would contraindicate tattoos.


You said
3: I have read about your opinion of soft drugs like marijuana. I have dabbled in drugs (on-off sort of deal, never addicted to it - just used reacreationally). Ive done weed and last week I tried cocaine for the first time. Before going into these 2 I was for some time actually addicted to pain killers, but left them and even when I have pain I dont like to use them at all. I think the reason why I havent gone further in using them is because I have such a high tolerance for them that using a normal quantity would not do anything at all to me. I definetely dont want to become an addict, since my mom's brother is and it has been quite tough dealing with the problems he brings to the family. I dont ever want to become like him. I believe I shouldnt do anything to harm myself, not beacause of some higher being, but because I have plans for the future. Im just curious about your view on using drugs like weed and cocaine just reacreationally like once or twice per month.
~~~~~~~~~~
The jury is still out on marijuana.  If you use it responsibly and not drive while you’re using it, I suppose it’s okay, but I would condemn it from the standpoint that it IS illegal.  As for cocaine, I’m definitely against it – everything I’ve read about it indicates that it is extremely harmful to your body.


You said:
4: I am for the most part a very reserved person. I have been battling depression quite a while now (for about 3+ yrs). I have been going not only to psychologists and psychiatrists, but also to christian counselors. I even gave Christianity and its God a try again last year, but quit after 4 months because of conflicting beliefs. I was told once that maybe it could be because of chemical imbalance and that I should visit a phychiatrist to get a prescription. I have been going to a phychiatrist, but everytime I go there im fine. When in between appointments is when im just completely submerged in depression, somehow a few days or week before Im all right - so I dont tell this person. I have given up on this type of people to try to help me simply because telling my friends whats wrong seems to help better.
~~~~~~~~~~
Give both the psychiatrist and therapist a chance.  I can speak about this personally as I’ve suffered from chronic clinical depression most of my adult life, and I’m old enough to be your grandfather.  I’m good now, thanks to a great therapist from a few years ago and a great psychiatrist about 15 years ago who saved my life. I personally do not and have not successfully taken medication for depression, but that’s me.  Everyone is different.  I know several people who have benefited from anti-depressants on a long term basis.  Don’t expect to be cured in one or two visits, or even in one or two months – anti-depressants sometimes take months to effectively control your depression.  Your use of cocaine and marijuana would also probably negate any positive therapeutic effects gained from prescribed drugs.


You said:
5: This one has to do with sexual orientation. I know many people who are either gay or bisexual. I am totally in oposition with the fact that gay people are sinful. I ocnsider myself bi-curious because even though I am atraccted to both sexes (both sexually and emotionally- the same with males as with females) I have never had a relationship with one. Should Christianity allow bi and gay people in churches without constantly trying to change them and accepting them for who they are and the choices they make?
~~~~~~~~~~
In my opinion, true Christians will accept bi and gay people just like anybody else in their congregation.  I am convinced that you are born one way or the other and would not attempt to “change” anyone, however I would attempt to change their “behavior”.  Being gay is not a sin.  Engaging in homosexual sex, in my opinion, is.  I believe that God made all of us the way that we are and that all of us have some sort of predilection to sin, sexual or otherwise, and we should attempt to refrain from engaging in that sin.  I can’t explain why God made gay people gay, but I believe they should honor God’s word and refrain from sinful practice of sex.  On the other hand, this issue is splitting up churches left and right all over the country.  If you are bi or gay, and you want to reconsider Christianity, you should seek out a gay friendly congregation – there are many around.  I believe that the church is not a home for saints, but a hospital for sinners.  Sexual sin is no worse than any other kind of sin, but this is NOT the view of the majority of Christians.

You said:
And finally:
What is your view on non-christian lifestyles? Any advice?
~~~~~~~~~~
Your lifestyle is your business, not mine.  The lead character in the movie “Man on Fire” has a line that says about the bad guys, “They have to answer for their actions face to face with God.  It’s MY job to arrange that meeting.”  My view is similar – you can choose your own lifestyle, your own religion.  MY job, as a Christian, is to introduce you to a loving and forgiving God who gave His son as a sacrifice so that you could spend eternity with God.  I cannot prove God to you, nor will I try.  I will answer your questions, social, theological, practical or whatever, but in the final analysis, the decision is yours. All I can tell you is that I’m absolutely convinced that God is real, Jesus is real, and the Holy Spirit is real.  You either believe it or not.  Too many people, both Christians and non-Christians view Christianity as a set of rules and regulations.  It’s not.  It’s a religion of one God who loves all His creation.  The choice to believe it or not is yours.  My only advice to you is to find a Christian pastor who is willing to talk to you about Christianity without being judgemental.  Maybe it’s me, I don’t know.  But you need to learn a lot more about life and about all religions before you make a final decision.  Whatever you choose, please do NOT choose to estrange yourself from your parents.  As a parent myself, I’d love my daughter no matter what she chose as a lifestyle.

I pray that I’ve helped.  Please take the time to rate my answer and ask more specific questions if you’d like to.  I’d be interested in hearing why you chose me in the first place.

Carl

-----Answer-----
Adrianna-

Thanks for your kind words.  You're right, nothing shocks me - I've seen or heard just about everything.  I don't know if you get the Sundance Channel or not (I unfortunately do not) - there is a new show on that I think you would like - you can see part of it on the internet at http://www.sundancechannel.com/onepunk/

You probably don't remember Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker - they were hugely popular televangelists until they found out that they were defrauding the public with some of their donations.  Jim Bakker actually served jail time.  Their son, Jay Bakker, is the One Punk Under God.  He is a member of the underground Atlanta community - punks, rockers, tattoists, etc, etc.  He's also a devout Christian.  I've heard him speak a couple times - I wish I could meet him.  He and I agree on a lot of things - the number one thing being that you don't have to be "fixed" before you become Christian - Jesus has already done that for you.

I did a quick search for gay-friendly churches in Puerto Rico and found 3:

Puerto Rico 3 churches   
       
 House of Prayer for All People Cristian Movement Bayamon Non denominational
       
 Centro Cristiano Las Otras Ovejas Del Rebano San Juan San Juan Concilio LOOR, Alliance of Christian Churches

 MCC Cristo Sanador San Juan MCC

I found that at http://www.gaychurch.org/ - this website might be of interest to you.  I think that if you find a gay friendly church, they might be a bit more accepting of your other viewpoints on tattoos, piercings, and paganism, although Christian Wiccan is truly an oxymoron to me.  I would have suggested Unitarian, but you said you didn't like them.  You might also want to try United Church of Christ.

I'm sorry you have issues with your mom.  I strongly recommend that you try to reconcile with her, and try to understand things from her point of view (e.g., if you were a perfect strait laced Christian and your daughter came home with her girlfriend, several tattoos and piercings and smoking a joint, how would YOU feel).  I think you'll find some common ground.  I'm sure she loves you and hopefully your dad does, too.  Just try to love them back.

Well, marijuana may be less harmful than tobacco, but I abhor tobacco more than marijuana.  The absolute worst decision I ever made in my life was that first cigarette I smoked.  I quit 26 years ago.  I really wish you wouldn't engage in either.  And I don't know where you read that cocaine is not physically addictive - it very much is in addition to the psychological affects.  Please read http://www.well.com/user/woa/fscoke.htm  From that article:  "Many users report being "hooked" after only one use. The addiction is both psychological and physical."  Adrianna, coke and crack is bad stuff - stop now!

I have no problem with your calling God IT.  I'm just glad you believe in Him. I'm frustrated with the people you've met that keep trying to fix you first before accepting you.  I truly wish you could come to my youth group - you would absolutely be accepted first.  I've had kids with tattoos, kids who were gay, kids who drank and smoked and had sex.  And although I've encouraged them not to, I've never rejected them.  Jesus loved everybody and I have a feeling that he would have chosen you as a person he'd like to hang out with.  And the only real problem that I have with your behavior is your drug use.  I may not agree with a lot of your beliefs, but I wouldn't mind hanging out with you - I wish there were people in your life who would love you unconditionally, just like God and Jesus (and I) already do.

Your viewpoint that Jesus is A way to God rather than THE way to God is widely held. I don't believe that, but understand why you might feel that way.  You say you reject Unitarianism, and even reject some of Wicca - can I ask you what specifically turns you off from Christianity?  I would really like you to read a book.  It's not expensive, and it would answer many of your questions - the name of the book is "The Case for Christ".  It's written by a journalist who set out to prove that Jesus was a fraud.  He wound up believing in Him. You can get it for less than $10 used at Amazon. Go here:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0310209307/ref=si3_rdr_bb_unew/103-319345
I really would like you to read it, then get back to me.

Adrianna, again let me thank you for trusting me and listening to me.  Not all Christians are as critical as some of the ones you've apparently met.  Please give us another chance to let you know why we believe that Jesus is the only way to God before you make any final decisions - keep on asking questions.

hugs, and unconditional love,

carl


Answer
Hi Adrianna,

Most of your turn-offs to Christianity are pretty much a faith thing - either you believe or you don't.  I'll adress each point:

-the people close to me who are Christians. Though i'll try to not take that into much consderation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've already said this.  Don't judge the book by its cover. I think you just haven't been around the right Christians.  We're not all judgemental.



-conflicting beliefs:
--God/Jesus being "A way not THE way".(like said before).
Jesus himself said he was THE way.  "No one can come to the Father but by me"  Some people will interpret that to mean that they don't know how Buddhists (and all other "ways" can make it to heaven, but somehow, Jesus is going to make that happen.  My personal belief is that Jesus died for EVERYONE, including the Buddhists, Pagans, Wiccans, Shintos.  I don't know how they're getting to heaven, but that's not my call.


--Heaven and Hell: For me, these places do not exist at all. I believe that if as human beings we are really eternal, we will all go to the same final resting place or reincarnate. If we arent, then we just die and nothing happens. Since one cannot get an objective answer on what happens after death, I try not to concern myself with that.

there has actually been a lot written and experienced about an afterlife - see the following websites:

http://bibleprobe.com/nde.htm
http://www.near-death.com/

I believe most of these stories - if it was only 1 person, I'd be skeptical, but there are so many.  On a parallel note, I have actually seen what I believe to be an angel - not once, but twice.  Some people think I'm crazy, but I know what I saw, and cannot explain it any other way.  I'm convinced there is a greater power than us.



--Some churches claim that by descending from Adam and Eve that we are already sinful. I disagree with this. I think people make choices that make them sin. No one is born sinful. (like the concept of Original sin).

We are born with free will - perhaps the greatest gift God gave us other than His son.  I believe that people will always make choices - some bad, some good.  It matters not whether that sin is original sin from Adam, or from an inherent nature to do wrong.  Bottom line is, for most people that are raised semi-normally - much sin is going to feel "wrong" - it's up to each of us to make the right decisions.  The Bible is full of people who made inherently bad decisions, regretted it, and came to know God.  I'd like to think that most people are born good, but I've seen too many people make too many bad decisions.  Rather than saying original sin is the reason why humankind is screwed up, can you accept the fact that sin does indeed exist in the world?  If so, then you're on your way to being a Christian, because if you sin, then you need a way to "pay" for that sin - that "way" is Jesus.


--Salvation: I seriously doubt people need to be saved for eternity to be able to go to heaven (as i have stated i dont believe in heaven or hell). Even though I dont belive in eternal salvation, I do believe people should be saved - not for eternal life purposes but for them to be able to lead a life correctly as pure and good as possible. Salvation is needed to live a better life here on earth.

In this case, I think the end justifiues the means.  I cannot disagree with you on this - I believe we are all called to be better people.  And if you only want to be "saved" for your life here, then fine, that's not a bad thing.


--hmm...that's basically it. I dont reject christianity. I just find that it should be a bit more flexible in order to appeal to others. No one can say with certainty their way of seeing things and interpreting the Bible is the utmost correct one.


But see, the Bible is very clear that flexibility is NOT an option.  Jesus is THE way to salvation.  Either you believe it or you don't.  Yes, there are contradictions in the Bible - although it was inspired by God, it was written by fallible men.  When you take it as a whole, as GOD's love story, it begins to make more sense.

Please read the Case for Christ.  I think you may change a lot of your opinions.

It's always a blessing to be able to talk to you and other folks about my faith.  Thanks for keeping this communication going.'

hugs,
carl