Expert: Roland Finston - 10/26/2011

Question
QUESTION: Hello Roland,

I have an '04 Sebring Sedan with about 88k miles.  Car runs fine, but to the best of my knowledge, the tranny fluid has never been changed.  I don't have any shifting problems, but checked the fluid not too long ago, and it is definitely turning a dirty color.. it also smells just a little burnt.  It's somewhere in between red and brown.

I've been reading a lot of conflicting info about changing the fluid at this stage.  Everywhere says don't get it flushed, some people say leave it alone at this point (something about the small metallic shavings "holding" everything together and giving it the friction it needs) and others say change it.  

I was thinking about splitting it down the middle.. and since I don't really have the room or bravery to 'drop the pan', I was thinking about getting out what I could with a siphon/pump through the dipstick, and adding in fresh fluid.  Taking a "somewhat, sorta kinda" approach, in hopes that this will freshen up things a bit.

What do you suggest?

ANSWER: The Service Manual recommends changing the fluid and filter (which requires dropping a pan) at 96,000 miles so you are not off the mark to consider doing that. Make sure that only ATF+4 fluid is used.
I don't see any risk to changing the fluid, just the cost as the total pool it 10+ quarts.
If you change it at all I would do it at a shop that has a power flush unit that will remove all of the fluid rather than just part of it by dropping the pan. Dropping the pan only removes about half the fluid so either power flush or nothing. The other half of the fluid that doesn't drop out when you remove the pan is in the torque converter and lines/cooler.I can't tell you how to decide how brown or how strong the smell should be. But the cost of servicing the unit if it does go bad prematurely due to degraded fluid is so high that investing in a power flush might be the best choice.

Roland

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello Roland.

Thanks for your reply.  The service manual I have, does not give an interval for changing the fluid per normal driving conditions.  Severe conditions, I think it says 60k?

It also mentions nothing about removing the pan and changing the filter.  Instead, it suggests that you can remove about 2 qt by a drain plug on the transaxle and another 4 qt by removing a cooler hose?

ANSWER: I looked more closely amd you are correct on that mileage (I was reading the km not miles and was looking a the severe schedule which is "B", which they had printed before the "A schedule, which is not the usual sequencing), and also you are correct there is no change frequency for normal driving (A) and for severe driving (B) it is at 60,000 miles. So again, you will have to decide how burnt the fluid smells, the manual does note the fluid does turn brown normally with wear and tear. I didn't see anything about a drain plug or cooler hose drain amounts, but I do see that the total capacity is about 9.2 quarts. As I mentioned the fluid in the torque converter doesn't drain out, so thus if you want to totally change the fluid you do have use a power flush system to do that.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: So I guess Roland.. ultimately, the question is, how do you tell if the fluid NEEDS changed?

I have a Honda that is 3 years old, 30k miles and the fluid has a smell.. and is turning dark.  I also read that you cannot necessarily base this on the color or smell, unless it is super obvious (ATF looks like used motor oil).

Answer
Hi Rod,
The color and smell of trans fluid changes as it is used. The '04 LH manual says about ATF+4 the "odor and color cannot be used to indicate the fluid condition or the need for fluid change". On that basis I would not spend too much futher energy on this issue.
Roland