Expert: Joe Norman - 4/19/2008

Question
QUESTION: I grew up in the Church of Christ (1950ish).  It was a small church and the men who were elders and deacons made all the decision regarding church government.  We recently visited a small Church of Christ in Tennessee and I was very shocked when the preacher announced that there would be a business meeting following the service "for all the men in the congregation".  I don't understand this?  I'm pretty sure that they are not all deacons or elders but if they were, why didn't he use the phrase "for the elders and deacons"?  Are all churches of christ now run this way?

ANSWER: Hi Beth,

Since you "grew up" in the church of Christ, you are aware that all local congregations are independent of each other. This means there can be, and probably are some minor differences. Also, many "small" congregations might not have any men who are qualified to be elders or even deacons. My dad preached at more than one congregation that had no elders or deacons. He worked hard to get them to the point where they had men who qualified and were appointed, but in many small churches, it just might not be possible. If there are none appointed, all the decisions are made by all the men of the congregation together. This is generally called a "business" meeting.

Even in larger churches that have elders and deacons, many times they will have meetings with all the men to discuss major decisions - so the elders can get feedback from them and also provide more details that they think are important to share with all the men. There is not much in Scripture to guide us in all the work of the local church and how decisions are to be made so there might be differences from one to another.

Now also keep in mind that there are many local churches who have become very liberal and denominational in nature. They might have the same name on the building but are not the same inside. But I am not sure how many small churches in Tennessee would be liberal. That seems pretty unlikely to me.

If you have any more questions or follow-up questions to this, please let me know. Generally I prefer to give Bible answers, but was not sure it was possible or even necessary with this particular issue.

I do hope I have been of some assistance to you. God bless!

         Immersed Into Christ, Joe Norman

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I don't understand what scripture is being followed.  If the men making the decisions for a church don't have to meet any qualifications, then why are they allowed to be in on running the church.  I understand the wife and husband thing.  Does the Bible say anything anything about being ruled over by every or any man?

Answer
Hi again Beth,

I apologize for not providing any scripture. I will try to answer your excellent follow-up questions and present scripture as well.

It has been my experience that if the church is small and no men (or at least more than one) meet the qualifications to be elders and/or deacons, they will have business meetings with ALL the men. Any decision will be based upon a thorough discussion and vote. The men represent their wives, sisters, mothers, etc. The goal of any small church should be to grow both spiritually and in number and to appoint elders and deacons as soon as they possibly can.

Now let me tell you this - if missionaries see a need for a local church to be "planted" somewhere because there is not one, they generally seek to have some men who are able to be elders to help establish a congregation. But sometimes this is not possible.

I also was a part of a church that was one of the oldest in one city. It did many great things - one of which was it established churches in different parts of the city. After about 60 years time, this wonderful church, which was downtown, dwindled in size to about 30 plus members. This was due to deaths, people being put in nursing homes and unable to attend, and the downtown area becoming more dangerous and uninviting. They no longer have elders. So they have meetings with all the men.

I do not believe this is what God wants and if it is possible to avoid it, the local church should avoid it - even if it means they close their doors and join the next closest local church.

Here are some passages to consider regarding the authority of any or every man.

1 Cor.14:34, 35
34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.35 And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.

In verse 34, Paul says the women(not the wives) are to keep silence in the churches. Then he says the women are to be in "subjection." He is saying they should be in subjection in general while "in the churches". This can only mean in subjection to the men of the church. Now in verse 35, he says if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home. But not every woman has a husband to ask at home. What does that mean to you? They can ask their dad, brother, or uncle, etc. The bottom line is that Paul says it is shameful for a woman to speak "in the church". I believe that "in the church" limits this to "formal" worship and does not apply to individual Bible studies. Yet, I would have a problem with a woman leading a prayer or presenting a five minute lesson in a devotional. Next, let's look at I Timothy.

1 Tim.2:8-14
8 I desire therefore that the men pray in every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing.9 In like manner, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment;10 but (which becometh women professing godliness) through good works.11 Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve;14 and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression:

I firmly believe that Paul is giving instructions regarding local church worship here is I Timothy as well. Yet, women should dress in modest attire all the time, not just "in the church". In verse 12, Paul says "a woman" is to learn in quietness and with all subjection. In verse 12, he says "a woman" is not to teach, nor to have "dominion" over "a man". There is no mention of husband and wife only. His reasons are the order of creation (v.13) and because Eve was "beguiled" into sin by the serpent (v.14).

Think about this - when Adam and Eve sinned in the garden, Eve was fooled into sin, but Adam knew what he was doing. He knew it was wrong but submitted to his wife's desire to eat of the fruit. God requires men to be leaders spiritually because of the failure of Adam to be the spiritual leader he should have been to Eve. Great responsibility is on the shoulders of leaders. They are held responsible for those they lead. It is not about who is superior or more able to do things, it is about what God wants and instructed.

Next look at  Corinthians again.


1 Cor.11:3-16
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head.5 But every woman praying or prophesying with her head unveiled dishonoreth her head; for it is one and the same thing as if she were shaven.6  For if a woman is not veiled, let her also be shorn: but if it is a shame to a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be veiled.7 For a man indeed ought not to have his head veiled, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man:9 for neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man:10 for this cause ought the woman to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels.11 Nevertheless, neither is the woman without the man, nor the man without the woman, in the Lord.12 For as the woman is of the man, so is the man also by the woman; but all things are of God.
13 Judge ye in yourselves: is it seemly that a woman pray unto God unveiled?14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him?15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.16 But if any man seemeth to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

Here, Paul shows the order of the church. The head of every man is Christ. The head of every woman is the man. Is this only the husband? Or is this every man? I do not see anything that limits this to husbands only. Now as far as headcoverings go, I admit I do not fully understand this. I believe this was much more a cultural thing, but it does seem that head coverings served a purpose.

Then, in verse 8, Paul refers to the order of creation again. He goes even further in verse 9 by stating that the woman was made FOR the man. This again seems to indicate every man has authority over every woman. Yet, we depend upon each other and need each other. In verses 13 through 16, it seems to indicate that a woman's long hair is her natural head-covering.

Having said all that, the bottom line is that God expects every local church to have elders who oversee that local church and the work done there. God expects deacons to be appointed as well to help in the work being carried out. (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5; I Timothy chapter 3)

I thank you again for asking these important questions and do hope that I have answered them to your satisfaction. Please keep in mind that I am merely a human and can be wrong. I suggest you ask others here to see what answers they provide. I recommend Ernie Laurence and Marvin Howard, but Marvin is on vacation from allexperts for a while longer. Ernie is available and quite capable to answer you.

If you have any new questions you wish to ask me or more follow-ups, please send them my way, and I will do my best to give you Bible answers.

         Immersed Into Christ, Joe Norman