Expert: Joe Norman - 10/11/2011

Question
QUESTION: Dear brother Joe: In Luke 22:19 when Jesus said:...this do in remembrance of me. Were His apostles at that particular time with Jesus doing that "in remembrance of Him"? I don't believe they were  because Jesus never yet went through His Death,Burial,and Resurrection yet,and never left earth yet. In 1Cor.11:26 the apostle Paul who was'nt with those original 12 apostles taught the Christians at Corinth:"For as often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup,"ye do show the Lord's death till He come." What do you think? I look forward to your thoughts.Thank you,In Christ,Mark

ANSWER: Hi Mark,

I am not sure what you are asking me. Obviously when Jesus spoke to the apostles and instructed them on "The Lord's Supper" He was merely showing them what to do and what the bread and fruit of the vine represented. No the apostles were not able to do it in remembrance of Him yet because he hadn't died on the cross yet nor was He resurrected nor had He ascended to be with God.

I am not sure what your point was in bringing up the fact Paul wasn't with those 12 original apostles when Jesus established the Lord's Supper. But that is exactly what we do when we partake of the Lord's Supper. We proclaim the Lord's death until He returns. Are you trying to say something like Paul not being an actual apostle? Are you trying to say something about the Lord's Supper? Do you think there's conflict between what Jesus said and what Paul taught about the Lord's Supper?

I am sorry I am not understanding what you are getting at or what you are seeking from me. Please write a follow up question to better clarify what it is you are trying to say and ask of me. I look forward to helping you if I am able.

In Christian Love, Joe Norman

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear brother Joe:I read an answer you gave someone about the 4 gospels where you said you believe they belong in the New Testament.But you do realize as most if not all brethren do that Jesus was born,lived,and died under the law of Moses which was in effect during that time before the cross. Most in the Lord's church in order to prove that the books of MML&J belong in the New Testament often go to this time when Jesus was eating the passover with His apostles as proof that they must be New Testament because here is Jesus commanding the Lord's supper and we all know that the Lord's supper is indeed commanded for Christians in the church of Christ which most admit began on the first Pentacost after the DB&R and ascension of Christ into heaven.The point I was making is that the apostles during that time with Jesus were not obeying a New Testament commandment of "do this in remembrance of me" because Jesus never yet went to the cross yet and they could'nt possibly be doing that in His memory yet till the New Testament went into effect at the time of Pentacost.I know Paul is an apostle but just wanted to show that he got his revelation about the Lord's supper not from the other apostles who was with Jesus but as he said in 1Cor.11:23:"For I have received of the Lord..."Dear brother Joe I know that MML&J were written by Christians but were'nt they written by Christians about Jesus under the Old Testament when the law of Moses was in effect and Jesus fulfilling the law and the prophets and prophesying about building His church in Mt.16:18,the new birth in Jn.3:3-5,and the Lord's Supper in MML&J before the cross? I just want to as all brethren should be correct in my understanding of what is and what is not the New Testament of our Lord Jesus Christ. Please forgive me for not making myself more clearer in my first question.Thank You for your love and patience for God and man and with me. I don't know all the answers but I'm trying to make sure I don't mislead myself or anyone else so we can go to heaven.God be with you and all who love our Lord Jesus,Amen. Your brother IN CHRIST,Mark Federer.

ANSWER: Hi Mark,

Thank you for clarifying what you were getting at and what exactly you wanted me to comment on or answer. I firmly believe the 4 gospels belong in the New Testament. Yes I realize Jesus was born, lived, and died under the Law of Moses. I am also aware that the church wasn't established until the day of Pentecost 33 AD. The passages where Jesus was eating passover and taught them to partake of the Lord's Supper is one passage I believe proves it belongs in the New Testament but not for the reasons most give. It wasn't done in rememberance of Christ until the establishment of the church 33 AD. BUT, the fact Jesus was PREPARING the apostles for the coming of the church and it was written by Christians FOR Christians it cannot be part of the Old Testament. Now having said that, everything we study in the gospels must be carefully examined keeping it in the proper context. There is part of the gospels which prophesy of the destruction of Jerusalem (70 A.D.) yet many don't consider the context and interpret the prophecy to speka of the end of the world. Other parts are obviously Jesus correcting the errors of the Pharisees regarding Old Testament Law of Moses teachings. The Sermon on the Mount is clearly all Law of Moses corrections. (Matt.5:31,32 for just one example)

Yes Jesus lived under the Law of Moses. Yes much of the gospels is correcting Pharisee error on the Law of Moses. But much of it also was to prepare the way for the coming of the church. So in conclusion, the gospels are not really Old Testament nor New Testament. They are a transition between the two testaments but since they were written by Christians FOR Christians, they are rightly included with the New Testament. I do hope that I have helped.

In Christian Love, Joe Norman

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear brother Joe: Thank you for your response. In it you said you firmly believe the 4 gospels belong in the NT.Then you said in your last paragraph:"So in conclusion, the gospels are NOT really Old Testament nor New Testament." To my mind this is not so firm of a belief. Then you say:"They are a transition between the two testaments but since they were written by Christians FOR Christians, they are rightly included with the New Testament." I believe there had to be a transition time between the two testaments but does'nt the death of Christ on the cross start that transiton period where Colossians 2:14,& Hebrews 10:9-10 teaches "...He took it(the first/old covenant) out of the way,nailing it to His cross and not the birth of Christ.For many years I believed Matthew marked the beginning of the New Testament because the uninspired man-made New Testament Title page says so and who am I to say it does not.I was taught by my brethren that in the sermon on the mount Jesus was giving His New Testament commandments as opposed to the Old Testament Law of Moses commandments but lately I'm seeing that even those who once believed and taught that in the brotherhood are now teaching that Jesus was teacing the truth of the Law of Moses in contrast to the false teaching of the Jewish Scribes and Phraisees.But I know for a fact that Jesus was teaching the truth of the Law of Moses as you also know and teach. You say Jesus was Preparing His apostles for the coming of the church.Both John and Jesus was RESTORING(Mt.17:11) ALL the JEWS back to God's Law and for the coming of the church/kingdom by preacing the gospel message of "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND." But you and I know we cannot preach this is the New Testament gospel message today since the church/kingdom is already here and the Law of Moses is history.To me, Jesus was fulfilling the Law and the Prophets and Ended the Law of Moses and these 4 gospels show Jesus doing that and they provide us with evidence for all to believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and God the Son.May God help us all in the brotherhood to be one and God bless you and me to continue to strive to understand His TRUTH and teach it the way He wants it to be understood and taught. Your brother IN CHRIST,Mark

Answer
Hi again Mark,

I disagree that the transition between the two testaments started with the death of Christ on the cross. The death of Christ and His resurrection was the point in which the Old was taken out of the way as those verses in Colossians and Hebrews teach but Jesus came also to live a sinless life for 33 years to become our perfect sacrifice and although most of the time Jesus was correcting Pharisee errors on the Law of Moses and He lived under the Old Testament, He also was preparing the apostles for their work to establish the Lord's church. He did teach about the "new birth" and other things like the Lord's Supper. You are also correct that Jesus was fullfilling the Law and the Prophets and took the Law of Moses out of the way with His death burial and ressurrection. I do agree with your last statement that the 4 gospels show Jesus doing that and they provide us with evidence for all to believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. But I still say they belong with the New Testament even though they are more of a transition between the two.

God bless you too.

In Christian Love, Joe Norman