Expert: Marvin Howard - 6/22/2011

Question
QUESTION: 1Co 16:1  Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I gave order to the churches of Galatia, so also do ye.
1Co 16:2  Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store, as he may prosper, THAT NO COLLECTIONS BE MADE WHEN I COME.

question: what does Paul mean when he said that "there will be No collections be made When I Come."

ANSWER: Hi!

This is not as complicated as I know it sounds. I will be glad to help with it.

Acts 2:1, "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place."

Acts 2:5-11, "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."

This is in Jerusalem on the first Pentecost after the resurrection. Jews who were citizens of every nation gathered as the Law of Moses required.

Acts 2:44-47, "And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved."

There was no church in any other place at this time. So, all the new Christians stayed in Jerusalem. In effect, they relocated and changed their citizenship so they might not forsake the assembly. With the sudden influx of people, the economy could not take the hit. So, Everyone who had money sold everything, practicing communism (without the atheism that marks communism today), and all of them had the same need. Meanwhile, the membership in the church began by adding members, then multiplying (Acts 6:1), then multiplying greatly (Acts 6:7); that is to say exponentially. When Jerusalem could hold no more people, the influx of new money into the communist system waned. Every Christian in Jerusalem soon grew to know great need because communism failed.

1st Corinthians 16:1, "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye."

Notice, Paul was repeating an instruction in this verse he gave to Galatia previously. Let's find the referenced teaching.

Galatians 6:10, "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith."

This teaching does not reference Sunday collection. It does reference collections and their purpose. Collections must first be used for the needs of Christians. After the collections are used for Christians, if there is any left, it may be used for all men. Referring back to the questioned verse, that collections are to be taken only on a specific day are addressed. We have no authority for another day, and since Jesus is our author (Hebrews 12:2) or authority in the Bible (John 4:23-24, John 17:17, and John 1:1-14), then to do something else is to go against or fight Jesus.

Now, let's look at the qualifying phrase in your question.

1st Corinthians 16:2b, "[T]hat there be no gatherings when I come."

Sunday is specified for a reason. The Jewish Christians from other nations around the world were now starving in Jerusalem. Immediate relief was needed under the terms of Galatians 6:10, cooperating with other congregations as ordered. In order to prevent delaying the help and risking the death of saints, the money was to be ready when Paul arrived. Since the church already met on Sunday, long before there was catholicism to claim making the change, this was the time to put the request before everybody.

Do we have a similar need for the qualifier today?

Matthew 26:11, "For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always."

Mark 14:7, "For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always."

John 12:8, "For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always."

Now that Jesus is gone, it is proper to give all excess to the poor as suggested at first in these cases. Notice, there will always be poor people in need of help. If someone needs help, but has to wait for the help, the help may arrive too late. Thus, the help needs to be collected ahead of time, just as it was in the case of Paul with Corinth and Galatia for Jerusalem.

This is the meaning of the phrase; do not procrastinate in doing good for it hurts people. That it is done on the first day of the week (Sunday), during worship, demonstrates soundly that it is the church as a whole, and not individuals, who is responsible for the well being of Christians first and then others but the church has nothing without its members.

I hope this helps you to understand better. Please feel free to contact me again if you need further help.

In His Service,
Marvin Howard

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: oh hello again i have a baptist friend, we argue a lot in terms of once saved always saved here's his reason:

Those who believe in eternal security do not believe you can be saved, then go out and live a life of sin as if you did not belong to God simply because you have your salvation. There's a difference between an intellectual assent of the facts, and actually taking God's Word to heart. What is required for salvation? "If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved" (Romans 10:9). Confession and belief are required for salvation. But let's look at James 2:19: "You believe there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble!" You can believe in God and not actually be saved, as the demons do. James also tells us: "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." A true, genuine, saving faith (belief) is one that leads to do good works, and to keep oneself from sin. Obivously no one, not even saved believers, can be absolutely sinless -- we just believe that once saved, a Christian will now hate sin and will do everything they can to avoid it.

Jesus is the "author and finisher of our faith" (Heb. 12:2). As such, since our salvation is through Jesus, He is also able to keep us from stumbling (Jude 24). Jesus is certainly powerful enough to keep us from stumbling to a point where we could, potentially, lose our salvation.

There is only one unpardonable sin (Matthew 12:31). The only sin that can not be forgiven is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Any sin can be forgiven, even any sin that a Christian commits. But a Christian who is genuinely saved will not want to commit any sin, though they still do stumble into it. First John 5:16 talks about a "sin that leads to death." If a Christian does sin willfully, especially a heinous one, then God may decide to end that Christian's time on earth prematurely. That Christian will certainly lose his/her reward in Heaven, but will not lose their salvation.

Finally, if one could lose their salvation, how much sin or what sins would cause you to do it? The Scriptures certainly don't say there are any sins that would cause you to lose your salvation. No Christian could be secure in their salvation, which would directly contradict 1 John 5:13

ANSWER: Hi!

Dan, his reason bounces all over the place and is incoherent. I guess to twist Scripture that is necessary. Let's begin with one misconception; the sin unto death. That does not speak of physical death where the soul and spirit leave the body. Rather, it is speaking of spiritual death where the soul leaves God. Since he does not believe this is possible, he automatically reverts to the other.

1st John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Our sins, those that come after walking in the light (v. 7), are forgiven only if we meet the condition; if we confess.

Ask him, can i fall off the roof of a building if I have never been on that building. Of course, and honest answer will be in the negative. The same hold true with faith. You cannot fall from grace if you never had grace (Galatians 5:4). Paul warned of it. Why would he warn us of a danger that did not exist? Your friend's position says Paul is too stupid to know falling from grace is not possible. He was not stupid, so falling from grace is possible.

Likewise, a ship cannot crash (be shipwrecked) if it never began the journey and strayed off course. It is the same with faith. Faith cannot be shipwrecked if there is no faith in the first place. Yet, Hymenaeus and Alexander made their faith shipwreck (1st Timothy 1:19-20). They had faith, Bible believing and obeying faith, but they strayed off course and crashed. Their faith stopped.

God will not take away our salvation. Also, He will never allow another to take it. But, these people incorrectly interpret this to mean salvation will never be gone. Even if God does not take it, this verse says nothing about what happens if we choose willingly to take it out of His hands.

Here is a sermon I preached to deal with these errant ideas. I pray it helps. Do not hesitateto ask if I can explain more for you.

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The T.U.L.I.P.

The T.U.L.I.P. is a popular doctrine in the world, today. It has invaded most of the denominations, either in part or in whole. Today, we are going to use Scripture to decide whether it is from God or man. Once again, as always, I am a man and fallible. Check scripture with me for yourselves to see if these things are so.

Please note, at this time, I suspend judgment on this doctrine. I ask you to do the same, with an open mind and honest heart. Once we look at the scriptures, then we can pass righteous judgment in accordance with the command in John 7:24. Until then, these are quotes from other sources. Here is the doctrinal outline, found in each and every reference source you care to check (it doesn’t matter which, as I have found all to be in basic agreement). After the doctrine and the following explanation, I will go to the scriptures to show what God says of this teaching.

THE CALVINISTIC “T.U.L.I.P.”

T.U.L.I.P. is the acronym for the basic ideas of classical Calvinism.
(The simplistic version)

T -- total depravity.
U -- unconditional election.
L -- limited atonement.
I -- irresistible grace.
P -- perseverance of the saints.

Here is the TULIP in full bloom.

TOTAL DEPRAVITY OR INABILITY (= “T” of T.U.L.I.P.)

The first point asserts that the entire or TOTAL human being--body and soul, intellect and will, etc.--is fallen and that everyone is born spiritually dead, helpless, and passive; indeed, everyone is worse than volitionally dead or unable to desire spiritual good but is actually enslaved to sin, positively and actively hostile to the things of the Spirit.

UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (= “U” of T.U.L.I.P.)

According to this point, God predestines or chooses to soften the hard, sin-enslaved hearts of certain fallen individuals and liberate them from their death not because of any merit they have but despite their demerits--i.e., He ELECTS to change their hearts (and thereby join them to Christ and His saving work) DESPITE the fact that they hate God and oppose Him and have hard hearts, not soft hearts, and have sin-enslaved wills, not free wills. Thus, believers have no reason to boast about themselves or their own actions: the only thing that differentiates them from Judas, Esau, or others who never respond in faith is that God gave them grace that He withheld from such reprobates.

LIMITED ATONEMENT or Particular Redemption (= “L” of T.U.L.I.P.)

This point says that while Christ’s blood--indeed, His entire life, death, and resurrection--is infinitely INTENSIVE in saving power and thus unlimited in one sense, it is not infinitely EXTENSIVE and is thus limited, not universal, in the extent of its application; for while everyone CONDITIONALLY or “provisionally” shares in Christ’s life, death, and resurrection (thus, if everyone believed, everyone would be joined or married to Christ), only members of Christ's body or bride or flock (ELECT believers) actually share in His blood.

IRRESISTIBLE (SUFFICIENT) GRACE (= “I” of T.U.L.I.P.)

This is virtually a synonym for Luther’s slogan “grace alone” (sola gratia) and is logically implied by points “T” and “U” above. It teaches that God’s INWARD CALL is perfectly EFFECTUAL or SUFFICIENT--a hard, fleshly, sinful heart need not add anything to God’s grace, such as "co-operation," for this special call or grace is invincible, overpowering all hatred and melting all opposition. Here Calvinists distinguish God’s inward, effectual call--i.e., IRRESISTIBLE GRACE or sufficient, effective grace--from His outward call, which is simply His commandments written on tablets of stone. The latter is eminently resistible, insufficient, and ineffective to give life to a dead soul or liberate a sin-enslaved heart.

PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS or Eternal Security (= “P” of T.U.L.I.P.)

This is the idea that “…He who began a good work in you will perfect it…” i.e., the idea that whenever God creates faith in our hearts and thereby joins us to Christ and His saving work, He will sustain that faith, that saving relationship with Christ, causing us, by His grace, to persevere in faith.

TOTAL DEPRAVITY OR INABILITY (= "T" of TULIP)

NOW HEAR YE THE WORD OF THE LORD as recorded in Deuteronomy 24:16 and 2nd Kings 14:6:
“The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.”

“But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.”

Since infants can do no wrong, for them to be born depraved or lost, it would be inherited sin making them lost. In other words, for them to be lost, they would be put to the second death, by God, for their father’s sins. This point of the doctrine is in direct defiance of scripture.
Here is an interesting, additional observation. The teaching is that sin is inherited. This is traced all the way to Adam. To prove the falsehood, it is neglected that for sin to be necessarily inherited, Adam must then have inherited his sin from his (Hebrew) אב, (Greek) πατήρ, or (English) father (all of these mean creator and father), which is none other than the Almighty! If the doctrine is true, God had sin which Adam inherited from Him! The logic is faulty to the nth degree, and not very well thought out from the beginning.

UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (= “U” of T.U.L.I.P.)

NOW HEAR YE THE WORD OF THE LORD as recorded in 2nd Peter 1:10:

“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:”

“If” is a conditional word. The election, therefore, is conditional (at least) on the Christian doing things listed in previous verses. Is our election conditional (as per the Word of God), or unconditional (per the word of Calvin)? Of course, God’s Word is true, and every man a liar. Since Calvin chose to contradict God, Calvin is proven to be a liar, and this point of his doctrine is false.

LIMITED ATONEMENT or Particular Redemption (= “L” of T.U.L.I.P.)

“Christ's blood...is infinitely INTENSIVE in saving power and thus unlimited in one sense, it is not infinitely EXTENSIVE and is thus limited, not universal, in the extent of its application;...”

NOW HEAR YE THE WORD OF THE LORD as recorded in John 3:16-17:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

The word “world” is the Greek κόσμος, and carries not only the definition of the universe, but also the inhabitants of the entire earth. While it is true that not everyone will be saved; not even the majority will be saved (Matthew 7:14), the fault lies not with the power of the blood of Christ! The fault lies with man. Calvin here at least tried to express a valid concept, that not many would be saved, but he greatly perverted scripture, using an invalid means (limiting deity) to attempt to explain a truth. However, as Satan would love to have us believe there will be some who Christ’s blood will be unable to save; this explanation also came from Satan. No one must ever be led to believe they are hopeless, or they will have justification, from a “church,” to continue doing evil. This will, without fail, result in the loss of that soul, and it becomes the responsibility of that portion of the religious world, for making him believe he could not be saved in the first place.

IRRESISTIBLE (SUFFICIENT) GRACE (= “I” of T.U.L.I.P.)

“This is virtually a synonym for Luther's slogan ‘grace alone’ (sola gratia) and is logically implied by points ‘T’ and ‘U’ above.”

NOW HEAR YE THE WORD OF THE LORD as recorded in Ephesians 2:8:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
If salvation is by grace, and through faith at the same time, it cannot be by grace alone. Likewise, if salvation is both by grace and faith, it cannot be by faith alone. This portion of Luther’s doctrine, borrowed by Calvin, is unscriptural.

“Here Calvinists distinguish God’s inward, effectual call--i.e., IRRESISTIBLE GRACE or sufficient, effective grace--from His outward call, which is simply His commandments written on tablets of stone.”

God does not speak to us through any method other than the scriptures, today. However, this is another sermon by itself. Yet, Calvin agrees, this is resistible. But, since we are not given grace by any other means, grace is therefore resistible, and this point of the doctrine is also false. Also, if the “T” and “U” points of the doctrine are false (as we have proven), the logic leading to this point is faulty in the first place.

Also, for God to extend His grace to only a few, selected (read respected) persons, He would then be a respecter of persons. What say Acts 10:34 and Romans 2:11 on this matter?
It is quite plain to see, Calvin made a god after his image, rather than accepting God as He is; Calvin, and all those following him are therefore idolaters. They made (or make) another god before Him!

PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS or Eternal Security (= “P” of T.U.L.I.P.)

This point of the doctrine is also referred to as, “Once saved, always saved.”


NOW HEAR YE THE WORD OF THE LORD as recorded in 1st Corinthians 9:27:

“But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”

After Paul was saved, and a preacher of the gospel, he could still be castaway from God, or be lost. I would like to know what kind of egos this man (Calvin) and his blind followers have to believe they are in a better position than the great apostle, Paul! They may be unaware of this verse of scripture. However, once shown, to maintain the teaching is to demonstrate this inflated ego.

Also, as shown in our debunking of the “T” of the T.U.L.I.P., our election can be made sure. Therefore, the opposite must also be true; our election may be unsure.

Each of the scriptures used here is plain. Proponents of this doctrine have been given many more ambiguous scriptures to prove their point. You cannot take a difficult passage of scripture and ascribe to it a meaning which would contradict plainer passages. Doing so teaches a different doctrine, and thus brings the teachers under the condemnation of Galatians 1:8-9.

The aforementioned “T.U.L.I.P.” was fashioned at the Synod of Dordt (Dordrecht) in the early 1600’s only in REACTION to five assertions of the Armenians (the “Remonstrants” or Dutch “semi-Pelagian” protesters). One extreme was protested by going all the way to the other end of the spectrum. Neither is accurate. This happened about 1600 years too late to be true Christianity.
So, you tell me. We have examined the evidence. Did God give this doctrine, or did it come from another source? What source could that be? What did God say?

God said to hear Jesus. Hear Him, will you? Don’t shut His words out at the behest of men like Calvin, Luther, Wesley, Zwingli, Smith, Smyth, Rutherford, Lucado, and Spurgeon. Don’t listen to the self-proclaimed “god-men,” like Ratzinger, who is deluded into thinking his name is now Benedict. All popes claim to be Christ (God) on earth when they claim to be “vicar” (which only meant substitute or replacement when they first used the word). God spoke to you already. He isn’t going to say more.

Will you listen? Come to God on God’s terms. Don’t allow a false doctrine to cloud your judgment, and keep you out of Heaven, not believing what God really said.
Jesus invites you to come to Him. Likewise, we invite you to come to Him. Will you do it? Partial obedience just isn’t enough. Think about it. God is our Father. If we tell our children to not drink or do drugs, and they don’t do drugs, but they drink, are they safe?
Here are all of the steps written for us to obey.

Matthew 11:15, “He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”

John 8:24, “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”

Luke 13:3, “I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”

Matthew 10:32, “Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.”

Mark 16:16, “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

Did you at one time have true faith; yet let it fall by the wayside? Do you need to return to Jesus? Do you need to obey God, rather than man for the first time? Just step out in the aisle and come forward. Will you answer His call, as we stand and sing this song to encourage you?

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: hi, thank you for the answers. As our discussion goes further i showed him a article of the "spiritual Sword" about once saved always saved, i have quoted to him  "provision for the fallen", it goes like this:

Provision for the Fallen

Sin separates us from God. The prophet declared: “But your iniquities have separated between you and your God and your sins have hid His face from you, that he will not hear” (Isa. 59:2). No scriptural guided person denies that sin must be removed for one to ente)r the kingdom of God (Gal. 5:21). Yet no one can truthfully say he does not sin (I John 1:8). Therefore, what must the Christian do when he sins? So that Simon would not perish, Peter told him to repent and pray for forgiveness (Acts 8: 20-22). John declares: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”. (John 1:19). If a child of God could never perish, why provision for the one perishing t0o be restored! (James 5:19, 20). This makes all such teaching in the New Testament meaningless! Sin results in death (Jas. 1:15). Consequently, John wrote so that brethren might not sin (I John 2:1), If sin does not put Christians in danger, then why did John write to prevent such?

Think about these points. Certain disciples, who followed Paul and Barnabas, and who obviously had accepted the Gospel, were admonished to "continue in the grace of God" (Acts 13:43). Steadfastness was required. Paul challenged the Corinthian saints to "receive not the grace of God "in vain" (II Cor. 6:1). If a child of God can never be lost, how could he receive God's grace "in vain"? The brethren at Philippi were instructed to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil.2:12). If a Christian cannot be lost finally, regardless of what he does or does not do, why would he ever entertain any "fear and trembling"

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He quotes this article in this way:

I agree that sin separates us from God. That is why a believer must repent of their sins before making their petitions known before God, so that He will hear their prayers. However, what if someone dies with sin in their life? Does that person go to Hell, even if they're saved? I don't believe they will. The book of Hebrews tells us that Jesus died for all our sins: past, present, and future (Heb. 10:10, 14). If someone dies unexpectedly, without having repented of any sins, they are still sanctified by the blood of Jesus.

If Simon was saved in that event, Peter was not saying "repent or you will perish"; he was using strong language to show Simon how sinful it was to think that the Spirit of the Lord could be purchased with money. He also told Simon, "and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you." God will be faithful and just to forgive our sins if we ask, so why would Peter say "if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you" if it definitely would, according to the Scriptures. He was showing that his attitude toward the Spirit of the Lord was incredibly heinous. In fact, he might not have even received the Holy Spirit when the apostles laid their hands on the people, because we also read that Peter said, "You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God."

Acts 13:43: the followers were admonished to continue "in the grace of God" as a reminder that God works within them.

II Corinthians 6:1: Receiving the grace of God "in vain" would be what I already described. To hear the Word, to receive it with gladness, but not to let it take root in your heart. To never actually let it change you, to accept it only because you like what you hear, or you want to escape judgment. Those "believers" don't last for long.

Philippians 2:12: As we see in the following verse, it is God who works in us both to will and do for His good pleasure. If God is the one who works in us, surely He is strong enough to keep us on the right path. We don't work out to get a body, we work out to develop our body. In the same way, we work out our salvation so that we can grow in the path of righteousness to become more and more like God. We work out our salvation in fear and trembling because it's God who works in us, and God is so much higher than us. Paul talked about being with the Corinthians in fear and trembling (1 Cor. 2:3), because the words he spoke were not his own, but the Spirit working within him. We are also told to perfect holiness in the fear of God (2 Cor. 7:1).

Hope you can help me.

Answer
Hi!

The best I can say is that a command is always a command. It is to be obeyed. God will not be spurious in giving commands that cannot be obeyed or that do not matter. His position on 2nd Corinthians 6:1 does not make sense. It disproves for him the very thing he is trying to prove.

Philippians 2:12 begins with a conjunction. Therefore, it necessarily ties to the previous verses. In the previous verses, it speaks of every knee bowing and every tongue confessing. This is not going to happen at any time other than Judgment Day. At Judgment Day, it will be too late to strengthen faith as he suggests. You will either be lost or saved, right then, and there is no more chance. There are not people that will be a little saved or a lot saved as his position dictates. So, any making sure is obtaining salvation and not strengthening it.

He has the cart before the horse in Acts 13:43.God working within them means nothing more than God's grace continuing in them. He is taking a clausal noun and making it the subject of the statement. God's grace is not what continues in this context (even though it does), what continues is the implied subject of the passage, "You." In English, when commands are given, the verb (such as continue in this case) is listed first in the statement, with the understanding that the audience is the subject and expected to react.

Simon had to pray. But, if his heart was not really in it, then the prayer would be unheard. That is where the realm of possibility enters the picture. Peter was warning Simon that his actions needed to mirror his words.

He says sin separates us from God. Then he says we cannot be separated from God. You cannot be separated from somewhere you have not been. For sin to separate us, as he says, then it is necessary that we were already in that position, which he denies.

The Calvinists take half Scriptures to support their fantasies, but do not dare look at context or complete passages because it will destroy them.

It sounds to me as if he is not approaching this to hear anything. It sounds as if his one mouth is open and his two ears are closed. If that is the case, and you are with him to know and I am not, it might be time to do a little "dust shaking" towards him for not gladly receiving the Word.

In His Service,
Marvin Howard