Expert: Joe Norman - 10/10/2007

Question
Joe

I notice you say on your site that the gifts were not passed on once the apostles died.  However, the Holy Spirit has not died, so why can't the gifts still exist?  I would say that a simple interpretation of the Bible, which you say interprets itself, would state that the gifts very much do exist.  I see no evidence for them dying out.  I challenge you to rethink this, not only in your Bible study but your own personal life.

Sarah

Answer
Hi Sarah,

First I want to thank you for choosing to ask me questions regarding the Holy Spirit. I deeply appreciate anyone wanting to help me to know God's Word better and every time I answer a question here, I grow in my Bible knowledge. Unfortunately, this is not a debate site. This is a site designed to help people who need answers to find someone who might be able to answer those questions.

 I am not sure you are really asking me a question wanting help or just wanting me to change my mind about something you believe to be true. But I will answer the question as to why the gifts do not still exist. My position is based solely on the evidence of God's Word. I did let it interpret itself. Please consider the evidence I present to you with an honest heart.

 The first thing that must be understood is what was the purpose for the miracles of the first century?

John 20:30,31  Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written SO THAT YOU MAY BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

 It should be clear that the miracles Jesus performed had the purpose of convincing others that He truly was and IS the Son of God. But there was a moment when the Scribes and Pharisees asked for a sign that He was truly the Son of God and Jesus had an interesting answer.

Matthew 12:39  But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

 I think this is an answer that needs to be remembered today. Those of us who do not see miracles and yet still believe are blessed by God.

John 20:27-29  Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Now let's look at the purpose for the miracles performed by the apostles and other Christians of the first century.

Hebrew 2:1-4  Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, while God also BORE WITNESS BY signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

God bore witness that the gospel of salvation was truly from Him through the signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit...which He distributed according to His will.

Next we must look to God's Word to see how these "gifts" of the Holy Spirit were passed on to others. I now turn your attention to Simon the Sorcerer in Acts 8.

Acts 8:9-11  But there was a man named Simon, who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great. They all paid attention to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, "This man is the power of God that is called Great." And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic.

Before we continue to study this passage, I want to point out that Simon was a magician who performed FAKE miracles. Yet, many believed he had the power of God. Now let's continue to see what happened next.

Acts 8:12-13  But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.

 The first thing I want to point out is that Simon heard Philip preach the gospel message and believed and was baptized. Then he saw Philip perform great signs and miracles.

Acts 8:14-16  Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

The apostles learned that Philip had preached the gospel to the Samaritans and many had believed and been baptized. So they sent John and Peter (apostles) to these Samaritan Christians. Why? It is because the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen upon them. This is specifically referencing the "gifts of the Holy Spirit." Now I ask you, why wasn't Philip able to give these new converts the "gifts"? Or, why didn't the Holy Spirit just fall upon them on His own? The answer is in the rest of the passage.

Acts 8:17-24  Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, saying, "Give me this power also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity."  And Simon answered, "Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me."

 Simon saw that the Spirit was given by the laying on of the apostles' hands. He even offered money to them so that he would be able to lay hands on others and give them the Holy Spirit. The rest is included just so that all of what transpired with Simon and Peter and John would be presented. Yet, it is extremely clear that ONLY the apostles could pass on the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit. This is why I state with complete confidence that once the apostles died, the "gift" were no longer passed on to others. By the time all who had these gifts died, the church had become firmly established and the New Testament was complete as well. We no longer need the miracles. The Bible itself is enough of a miracle to convince any who take the time to study it. Keep in mind also that no one today would even know there is a Holy Spirit without the Bible.

Paul indicates that speaking in tongues, prophecy, and other miracles would come to an end.

1 Corinthians 13:8-10  Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

 You might ask, what is "the perfect"? You might want to claim "the perfect" is Jesus and that until Jesus comes, these things will not pass away. To better understand what "the perfect" is, let us look to the Greek and it's definition.

G5046 - τέλειος - teleios - tel'-i-os

From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Now we can see that what Paul is referring to is NOT Jesus Himself. He is referring to when the church is completely established or mature, these things will end. This indicates that the gifts will cease once the church has the complete New Testament and is fully grown or mature. I have let the Bible interpret itself in my analysis of whether or not the "gifts" are ceased. Yes, the Holy Spirit is not dead. It is my firm belief that the Holy Spirit is actively working through divine providence, prayer, and through the Word itself. I believe we have the spirit guiding us when we allow the word to be written upon our hearts. When I have choices to make that are moral choices, God's Word guides me. I do not always go open a Bible to get guidance before I make my decision. God's Word comes to my remembrance. I love God and study His Word daily. It is a part of me.

 I pray that my answer has helped you to see the truth of God's Word more clearly. I know of no evidence from the Bible that indicates the "gifts" continue even today. Also, no so-called miracles today compare to those we read about in the New Testament. Also, most who claim to speak in "tongues" today do not even understand what it was in the New Testament. Speaking in tongues was not an unknown language. It was the ability to speak in languages that you have never studied. Also, they are useless without a translator...which none today are able to do. If you have more questions I am more than happy to answer them, but I do not intend to enter into a debate on this site. It is not a debate site. May God bless our study together and His truth always be revealed.

           Immersed Into Christ, Joe Norman