Expert: Marvin Howard - 2/24/2005

Question
hi,
I really want to know what's all this is about? I'm pretty offended when I look at these verse:

gen19:31-36
if there are no unmarried men of the same faith available, a woman shall get her father drunk and have sex with him ( that's obviously immoral)

deut22
marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. if she's no a virgin, she shall be executed.
death is the only exit from marrige. should a married man died without having fathered any male heirs, his brother shall take the widow as ONE of his wives.

gen 3:16
to the woman he said," I will greatly increase your pains in child bearing; with pain you will give birth to children. your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

exodus 21
when a man strikes his slave, male or female with a rod and the slaves die under his hand, he shall be punished. but if the slave survives a day or two, he shall not be punished: for the slaves is his money.

leviticus 25
as for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy your male or female slaves from the nations that are around about you...you may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possesion forever.....that the lord intended the blessed institution of slavery to last forever!

I'm not a first timer and had asked many many christian about this issues and the general answers I've received:
1)YOU don't understand the bible....
2)there are "meanings" behind the bible(well that's fine), but ended up everybody giving me many different answers some even contradicts each other.
3)we can't know about it, it's the lord's word, so our duty is to believe in the holy bible.
4)you got to ask the pastor, I don't know.
5)what? you doubt the bible? you better not! you will go to hell!

I never will lied to you, but many christians I've asked said that slavery is OK because it's the lords word! it goes for other nasty things to.

slavery, excutions, sex with father are IMMORAL!!!! it has nothing to do with whether it's the past or future, god's word or or not! it makes people SUFFER! that's what I know about, if you also believe its OK then I really have nothing to say....

I'm seriously concern about this issue and I meant no offense. Hope to hear from you soon.
thank you  

Answer
Hi!

Kenny, I will be glad to address these issues for you. I know you believe the scriptures. Do you know why you are able to believe?

I know of no other piece of literature, anywhere, where the heros and heroines are portrayed exactly the way they are. Usually, they are written in as larger than life. Let's take a deeper look at all of these, one at a time.

Genesis 19:29-38, "And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt. And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters. And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
Gen 19:36  Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day. And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day."

This is a classic case where wrongs were recorded so that we may see the weak humanity of man, and realize our place in relation to God. How can I be sure? There is not even a hint of a command for a man to follow here. What we see, instead, is a small family. Lot's family had consisted of two daughters who were not married, a son-in-law (meaning a married daughter as well), more than one son, and a wife. Of these 8 or more members, only four left the city. Of the four, the mother was lost. It is not justification, but the daughters did wrong out of a right motive and out of grief for their sudden loss. This can serve as a lesson for us today. What we mean to do is not as important as doing what is right. I agree with your assesment that incest is immoral.

This passage is also history. It shows the bloodline and origin of the Moabites and Ammonites. These two nations, possibly due to the nature of their conception (but that is just speculation), are shown to be thorns in the side of the Israelites throughout scripture. In fact, the animosity did not end till God removed Israel from their land for rejecting Him. When the United States went and put them back, against God's will (thinking we were doing right to support the false doctrine of the rapture), the animosity resumed.

Your second passage is much more complex. Let us look at something else first, as it might shed some light on it for you.

Matthew 19:1-12, "And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judaea beyond Jordan; And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there. The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Jesus laid out the truth here in response to the attempts to trap Him. From the beginning, marriage was always intended to be between one man and one woman. Death was the only legitimate way out of a marriage. Jesus added one further exception, unfaithfulness on the part of either spouse freed only the other to remarry. Otherwise, even though they may say they are divorced, they are not. If this weren't the case, the guilty party wouldn't be guilty of adultery by getting married again.

Adultery is a capital offense in the eyes of God. It is but one of many. However, Romans 13:1-7 prohibits us from this execution, unless the government allows it. In our case, it does not. I am sorry to say, many people who believe government executions are immoral are railing against God's definition of morality, trying to substitute either their own or that of another. The executions by individuals are what have now been outlawed, and declared immoral.

But, where did the practice of polygamy originate?

The first instance is recorded in Genesis 4:19. Lamech took two wives. Again, nowhere is it commanded or authorized by God. Yet Moses did command it. Why? Well, we have already seen why Moses created his laws on marriage which were contrary to God's will; the hardness of the people's hearts. As Christians, we should be beyond that now.

Matthew 19:5, "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"

1st Corinthians 6:16, "What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh."

I have a rhetorical question for you. What man performed the wedding ceremony between Adam and Eve? Well, since there were no other men, the answer is no one. Yet they were married. What was it that made them married if it wasn't man? It was the man "knowing" his woman in the Biblical sense. Therefore, when a man and woman have sex, they are married. If someone isn't a virgin when they marry, they have had sex. Therefore, they are married to the person with whom the previously had sex, and ineligible to be married. I am not going to quote the entire 22nd chapter of Deuteronomy for you. I assume you can lay it open and compare it with my answer for this part. Suffice it to say, as does Jesus, it is better to be a eunuch than to stay with someone who has been married before, for you are committing adultery if the divorce isn't scriptural. If it is continued, without repentance (leaving it), it will cost salvation.

Genesis 3:16 is nothing more than a promise. Pain in childbearing exists today. This is enough to prove the promise true. If part one is true, so is part two. These are the direct result of the woman being made more to think with emotions, while the man thinks with logic. If a man and woman are one flesh due to marriage, I want you to picture this. Have you ever seen a body, any body, any species, that works effectively with two decision makers or heads?

For a woman to be permitted by God to speak in church; for birth pains to be done away; for women to be the heads of families, it must now be that Eve was not the first to partake of the tree. But, she was. So, these conditions still exist.

For your references in Exodus and Leviticus, slavery is neither condemned nor commanded in scripture. That it is not condemned is proven by the book of Philemon. Philemon was a Christian at Collossae. He had a slave named Onessimus. Paul asked him to let Onessimus go that he may serve Paul. Nevertheless, Paul made it clear he didn't have to do so. This is another case where government laws are the standard when they do not contradict Scripture. Our government says slavery is illegal, so it is illegal. It is not a morality issue. If it were, Philemon would have been condemned by Paul for the practice, but he was not.

With all that said, there are two very similar verses which sum it all up nicely.

1st Corinthians 6:12, "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."

1st Corinthians 10:23, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

Even if these things were lawful (not immoral, for breaking God's Law is the very definition of immorality), they are not always expedient. That is, they are not always the best things to be doing. These things do not build up the body of Christ.

I agree with you that many people contradict themselves and others. There would be the unity for which Christ prayed if it were not so. It is my contention that if everyone took all of the Bible, and nothing but the Bible, much of this would vanish. While it may be the desired position, it is not likely, for many wish to have their legacies preserved either in authoring a denominational creed, or having a denomination glory in their name rather than the Christ. Others may desire to follow a man instead of Christ, for they are offered a lazy way out in so doing. That it cannot be delivered as promised is conveniently overlooked.

I wish you well in your further studies. You are invited to my website to see if any sermons there may shed light on anything else for you. Should you still have problems with these issues, you are more than welcome to ask more.

In His Service,
Marvin Howard
preacherman_1962@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/preacherman_1962